Olde German Translation

[shippingsteel]

I need some assistance with the translation of the once used German word Incliniren which I have found labelled on a Turkish fortress gun in the Dardanelles.

This particular gun was made in Germany by Krupp in the 1880's and supplied to the Ottomans, where it was setup in a fortified position overlooking the straits.

It appears this word is of the "olde German" and has now disappeared from usage. No amount of translation software or googling on the net yields much result.

So if anyone has knowledge of what this word means I would appreciate some help. I believe it is used in the context of raising the gun to an elevated position.?

Cheers, S>S

[trajan]

A guess - inclination?

Trajan

[trajan]

Just found this in Pierer's Universal Lexicon, 4. Auflage 1857–1865 at http://www.zeno.org/...57/A/Incliniren:

[842] Incliniren (v. lat.), sich neigen, geneigt; Inclinant, sich neigend; Inclinirt, geneigt. Inclinirte Sonnenuhr, eine Sonnenuhr, deren Stundenblatt nicht wie gewöhnlich horizontal od. senkrecht steht, sondern um einen beliebigen Winkel nach Süd gegen den Horizont geneigt ist. Ist dieser Neigungswinkel gleich der Äquatorhöhe des Orts, folglich das Stundenblatt dem Äquator parallel u. mithin der Stift senkrecht auf ihm, so hat man die Äquatorealsonnenuhr, bei welcher die Stunden um je 15 Grad von einander abstehen.

I'll let you (or Adrian!) do the next bit - the translation! - as I have to get brunch ready

Trajan

[Jack Sheldon]

SS, there are two factors at work here: one linguistic and the other technical. I cannot provide a definitive answer in either case, but hope that these pointers will encourage experts to come forward and expand on what I have written.

First the word itself.

In 1901 the Germans made an attempt to simplify the spelling of words so that there was closer harmonisation between pronunciation and spelling. The letter 'C' caused them particular problems, because a word like 'Circus' featured two 'Cs', the first soft, the second hard. The city of Cologne was spelt 'Coeln' (with an umlaut on the 'o'), but was pronounced with a hard 'C'. The solution was to replace most soft 'Cs' with 'Z' which in German is pronounced more or less 'Tss' and most hard 'Cs' with 'K'. So, as a result, Circus became Zirkus and, for those with an interest in these matters a section of the German position along Station Road near Beaumont Hamel was so named. Cologne stuck with its former spelling until 1919, but then changed to Koeln, so as to conform. So the word on your gun should be read in modern German as InKliniEren. So far, so good. However, if you check that word out in a dictionary, you will find meanings along the lines of a human inclination towards something, which leaves a bit of a puzzle. However ...

Second, the technicalities.

I understand that inklinieren was a term used in association with heavy naval guns and dated back to the days of sail. So I think that it is probably to be read as 'depression', as opposed to 'elevation'. This all goes back to the need to depress the muzzles of cannon and 'fire on the upward roll' during broadside engagements, so as to strike the target below the waterline. The heavy naval guns in the Dardanelles all had elevated shore positions, so this was probably important in that context as well. One of the difficulties for me is that you could write everything I know about naval gunnery on the back of a postcard and, as far as I know, the army artillery never used anything similar, the term for elevation in that case being Hoehenrichtung.

What we now need is for experts to come along and confirm my linguistic point and steer us on naval gunnery terms, but I hope that this ramble may have provided the odd pointer.

Jack

[trajan]

Yep, we archaeologists use magnetic declination and dip (= inclination) a lot in dating studies using in situ fired clays. So, inclination for us is the movement (in degrees/seconds) of a compass needle up/down relative to the horizontal when recording the magnetic alignment of a sample.

How does that one fit in terms of inclination for that gun S>S?

Trajan

Perhaps I should elaborate on my opening comment... Magnetic north moves from side to side and up and down (and sometimes reverses to south!) on a regular basis, and the declination and dip location of magnetic north (or south) when a clay structure (e.g., a hearth or a pottery kiln) is fired to over 1000 degrees is fixed to where the magnetic north (or south) was at that time... So, if you can learn this from the sample, and if have the dating evidence for the movements of the dec and dip, then you can date your fired clay structure!

[shippingsteel]

Just found this in Pierer's Universal Lexicon, 4. Auflage 1857–1865 at http://www.zeno.org/...57/A/Incliniren:

[842] Incliniren (v. lat.), sich neigen, geneigt; Inclinant, sich neigend; Inclinirt, geneigt. Inclinirte Sonnenuhr, eine Sonnenuhr, deren Stundenblatt nicht wie gewöhnlich horizontal od. senkrecht steht, sondern um einen beliebigen Winkel nach Süd gegen den Horizont geneigt ist. Ist dieser Neigungswinkel gleich der Äquatorhöhe des Orts, folglich das Stundenblatt dem Äquator parallel u. mithin der Stift senkrecht auf ihm, so hat man die Äquatorealsonnenuhr, bei welcher die Stunden um je 15 Grad von einander abstehen.

Yes my first take on it was also that it is meaning 'Inclination' - it is obviously involved in adjusting the elevation of the gun barrel. I know what it means but I'm struggling with the exact usage.!

Here is the translation into English of the definitions that you provided above ... :- Incliniren (from Latin), is inclined tend; Inclinant, leaning; Inclinirt inclined ... this the first meaning I've seen.

Thanks for that Trajan, still not exactly crystal clear but it helps. I have also seen the word used describing personal feelings - they are inclined to feel a certain way, perhaps as in "tendency".?

Cheers, S>S

[shippingsteel]

I understand that inklinieren was a term used in association with heavy naval guns and dated back to the days of sail ...

Thanks Jack, you make a very good point in that the Turkish fortress guns were principally static heavy naval guns of the time - something which hadn't occurred to me.

And the term "inclination" was something that would be found on a naval gun, as opposed to land based artillery which would not have that requirement, so that figures.

Shown below is a screen grab from a google search, which describes exactly that - whereby a gun must be adjusted to allow for the inclination of the deck, when firing.

Principles Practice Modern Artillery 1873

www.scribd.com/doc/.../Principles-Practice-Modern-Artillery-1873

"to ascertain the heel of a vessel, so that be made, in laying the gun, for the inclination of the deck the pendulum vibrates through 25^ on each side of the ..."

Cheers, S>S

[Ogilwy]

Trajan,

Can't beat a bit of archeo-magnetic survey. It got me a 20 yr confirmation of a Roman kiln (Boars Hill Oxford) once!! A wiggle curve agreeing with the finds, what ever next!

Rod

[MikB]

Thanks Jack, you make a very good point in that the Turkish fortress guns were principally static heavy naval guns of the time - something which hadn't occurred to me.

And the term "inclination" was something that would be found on a naval gun, as opposed to land based artillery which would not have that requirement, so that figures.

Cheers, S>S

British naval guns on heavy ships were fired by gyroscopic contact when the ship's heel passed through the horizontal.

If German practice was similar, one might guess that the heel angle at which the gun was to be fired might be settable on the piece itself - for use when in local control only, I'd imagine.

On naval guns mounted in land fortifications this feature would of course be redundant, so any electromechanical device(s) associated with it might never have been refitted when the guns were installed. It's possible the label is meaningless in the context.

Just guesswork.

Regards,

MIkB

[shippingsteel]

On this particular gun (which was manufactured by Krupp in 1888) the attitude of the gun seems to have been manually adjusted with what looks to be a geared wheel (spoked).

Given the early date in which it was made I would imagine the operation would be fairly low-tech, and could double as the elevation adjustment on a land gun. Wheel shown here.

Cheers, S>S

[HenryTheGerman]

Incliniren = similar to "inklinieren".

Inklinieren (lat.), neigen, Zuneigung für etwas
haben; ein Geschütz oder Gewehr so richten, daß die
Mittellinie der Seele sich vorn nach dem Horizont
zuneigt ss. Elevation).

(Brockhaus Konversationslexikon 1894 - 1896, 14. Auflage)

[trajan]

Incliniren = similar to "inklinieren".

I found this thread researching German artillery and as I missed Harry's reply above, I thought it might be useful to elaborate a tad more on his quote - as I understand it!

The Seele here in the quote is (I understand) short for the Seelenachse and so the bore of the gun barrel, thus 'Mittellinie der Seele' refers (I think!) to the centre line of the gun barrel, and so the quote means, as I understand it, to align the centre-line of the gun barrel with the visible horizon...

I will now duck behind the usual parapet in case the brickbats or worse come flying...

Oh, and Happy St.Georges Day and Happy Children's Day also, the latter giving me time to chase up things on GWF!