margaretdufay Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 Hi everyone, just made my second purchase of memorabilia, as my family interest is the Black Watch, quite fitting that I bought a Black Watch Cap Badge, can anyone give me some info about the history of it, and has it changed over the years, I am not very sure of the age of this one many thanks in advance mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 I am not sure that you have the right badge. The one shown is a Cameron Highlanders cap badge. The Black Watch were the Royal Highlanders. Totally separate regts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 Hi Mags Is this the Pipers Baldric Badge ? Very difficult to tell without a close up as I'm afraid that if not it looks uncommonly like the 'QO Cameron Highlanders' Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 8 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2012 I think you are both right, have just had a look at the cameron badge, just shows what a beginner I am as far as collections go, but it doesn't matter, I still like it and maybe next time I will get the right one, thanks for your help, but now then what is the story of the Cameron badge, and can I change my string title? cheers mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 just shows what a beginner I am as far as collections go, but it doesn't matter, I still like it and maybe next time I will get the right one, cheers mags Without the faintest hint of being patronising, what a refreshing attitude. I recently paid an awful lot for a very boring photo just to plug a gap in my collection. The next day a chance 1.99p purchase turned up in the post. It shows a donkey and trap with a group of territorials in it that was taken 100 years ago 6 miles from where I live. I had no idea what it was when I bought it but guess which is now the wall paper on my computer screen. Never lose the concept of appreciation, it's very easy to do. Regards Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 June , 2012 Share Posted 10 June , 2012 I think you are both right, have just had a look at the cameron badge, just shows what a beginner I am as far as collections go, but it doesn't matter, I still like it and maybe next time I will get the right one, thanks for your help, but now then what is the story of the Cameron badge, and can I change my string title? cheers mags The badge was originally from the 79th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot, although in its original form it did not have the scroll with Cameron on it. Apparently, when the 79th became the Queen's Own (Cameron) Highlanders in 1881 and had to submit a design for a cap badge, they did so with the badge without scroll. However, at the Royal Army Clothing Department where it seems the badges (submitted by all the regiments) were intially held as 'sealed' examples, it was one of the few Line Regiments badges without a title incorporated in the badge design and a senior store keeper added the scroll on the badge's illustration so as to easily identify it. The illustrations were duly sent off for manufacture and when the badges eventually came back from the manufacturer and to the horror of the regiment, they had had the scroll with CAMERON included in the design. However, being entirely pragmatic they did not make a fuss and the badge became accepted. Interestingly, there are still badges without the scroll from the time when the regiment was the 79th, but they are usually in brass rather than white metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 10 June , 2012 Share Posted 10 June , 2012 The badge was originally from the 79th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot, although in its original form did not have the scroll with Cameron on it. Apparently, when the 79th became the Queen's Own (Cameron) Highlanders in 1881 and had to submit a design for a cap badge, they did so with the badge without scroll. However, at the Royal Army Clothing Department where it seems the badges (submitted by all the regiments) were intially held as 'sealed' examples, it was one of the few Line Regiments badges without a title incorporated in the badge design and a senior store keeper added the scroll on the badge's illustration so as to easily identify it. The illustrations were duly sent off for manufacture and when the badges eventually came back from the manufacturer and to the horror of the regiment, they had had the scroll with CAMERON included in the design. However, being entirely pragmatic they did not make a fuss and the badge became accepted. Interestingly, there are still badges without the scroll from the time when the regiment was the 79th, but they are usually in brass rather than white metal. This anecdote is entirely correct. It occurred, however, in 1897. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 June , 2012 Share Posted 10 June , 2012 This anecdote is entirely correct. It occurred, however, in 1897. I wonder what they wore in the glengarry before that (i.e. between 1881 and 1897), a lot of regiments both Scots and English/Welsh/Irish wore either, collar badges, or part shoulder titles (fusiliers and LI) in their field or glengarry caps during that span of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 10 June , 2012 Share Posted 10 June , 2012 I wonder what they wore in the glengarry before that (i.e. between 1881 and 1897), a lot of regiments both Scots and English/Welsh/Irish wore either, collar badges, or part shoulder titles (fusiliers and LI) in their field or glengarry caps during that span of time. The 79th's cap badge of St. Andrew carrying the cross surrounded by thistle wreath w/o scroll dates from at least 1850 when worn in the humel bonnet. Before 1881, this badge was supplemented by a "79" worn below St. Andrew with the "79" eliminated in 1881. Then in 1897 the storeman incident that you described added the scroll. I am told that soldiers highly cherished the non-scroll version, and it was to be seen on headwear even through WW2. This St. Andrew badge is also referred to as the Badge of Scotland, and the Camerons had no monoply on it. The badge was and still is worn by Black Watch pipers on the lower part of the Baldrick belt just above the waist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 11 June , 2012 Share Posted 11 June , 2012 I didn't know the anecdote about how the scroll was added to the Cameron badge. I had always wondered why they changed the badge. Thanks Frogsmile and gordon92. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 June , 2012 Share Posted 11 June , 2012 The 79th's cap badge of St. Andrew carrying the cross surrounded by thistle wreath w/o scroll dates from at least 1850 when worn in the humel bonnet. Before 1881, this badge was supplemented by a "79" worn below St. Andrew with the "79" eliminated in 1881. Then in 1897 the storeman incident that you described added the scroll. I am told that soldiers highly cherished the non-scroll version, and it was to be seen on headwear even through WW2. This St. Andrew badge is also referred to as the Badge of Scotland, and the Camerons had no monoply on it. The badge was and still is worn by Black Watch pipers on the lower part of the Baldrick belt just above the waist. Thank you, that all makes sense and fits with common practice in the use of numbers and a 'device' on head-dress before 1881. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 11 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2012 here is the first part of the badge I received, hope it will post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 11 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2012 hi again, am having difficulty posting the other photo. I received my badge today, and with it were two of the preceeding photos. can anyone explain what they are for and can we know how old they are? and how was the badge itself attached to the cap. on seeing the badges, no regrets whatsoever that it wasn't the black watch badge many thanks for your info br mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 11 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2012 have managed to post the photo of the badge itself, sorry for the poor quality, but had to use my phone as my camera is broken at the moment. br mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 13 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 June , 2012 managed to take a photo of all three things together, but am still none the wiser of how to use the two smaller badges, can anyone help me? br mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 June , 2012 Share Posted 13 June , 2012 managed to take a photo of all three things together, but am still none the wiser of how to use the two smaller badges, can anyone help me? br mags They appear to be Light Infantry collar badges (a matching pair) and you have them upside down in relation to the Cameron's cap badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Brat Posted Monday at 11:33 Share Posted Monday at 11:33 I have two badges from different period and keen to know which is which. Can any one help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted Monday at 16:28 Share Posted Monday at 16:28 4 hours ago, Black Watch Brat said: I have two badges from different period and keen to know which is which. Can any one help? The top one is the 1902-1934 pattern and the lower one is the 1934-1953 pattern but both were issued and worn after those dates in order to use up stocks. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted Monday at 17:05 Share Posted Monday at 17:05 31 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: The top one is the 1902-1934 pattern and the lower one is the 1934-1953 pattern but both were issued and worn after those dates in order to use up stocks. Pete. 1934 was, indeed, a key date. This was when the Regiment changed its subtitle from The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) to The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment). However, the badge change, with the elimination of the scrolls, lagged behind occurring in 1937. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Brat Posted Monday at 18:20 Share Posted Monday at 18:20 1 hour ago, gordon92 said: 1934 was, indeed, a key date. This was when the Regiment changed its subtitle from The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) to The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment). However, the badge change, with the elimination of the scrolls, lagged behind occurring in 1937. Just now, Black Watch Brat said: You are a star, that makes great sense, my Dad served from 1935 till his death in 1961. Makes then more precious. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now