Identifying uniform and rank

[Barrysh]

Hi, I am trying to trace my grandfather and hope the 2 attached photos may help as my knowledge so far is limited.

The family story is he was a captain in The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. He was shown as a soldier on his marriage certificate when he married in Londonderry in 1904 but by 1910 he was a painter in Belfast. My mother vaguely remembers a story about someone being bought out of the army, could have been him. He moved the family to Whitehaven in Cumbria when I assume he was conscripted into the Great War. He was wounded at The Dardanelles and died at an early age in 1929. Is it possible that from his background and limited service he could have reached the rank of Captain. I'm sure some of your knowledgable members will be able to tell me something from the photos. Just to recap this is what i know about him.

James Agnew, born around 1880, possibly Derry, Belfast or Down.

Living in Belfast or Whitehaven at start of the war

I am hoping that knowing his rank will give me a start in finding his military record and eventually his date and place of birth.

Thanks for your help

Barry

[Muerrisch]

The picture quality is not great but:

left hand is a fusilier of sorts in the 5 button scarlet frock, common in India, less so at Home, officially withdrawn/obsolete [except India] 1902 but lingered on until worn out. Soldier has 2 good conduct badges but no rank: depending on date represents at least 5 years good conduct, earlier was 6. Cap indistinct but looks like the successor to the Brodrick therefore photo provisional date 1906/7 but the frock/cap evidence does conflict a bit. Right hand cannot read photographer but looks like fusilier in a typical c. 1906 KD frock India Egypt or indeed anywhere hot.

Better detail of both would help.

[Barrysh]

The picture quality is not great but:

left hand is a fusilier of sorts in the 5 button scarlet frock, common in India, less so at Home, officially withdrawn/obsolete [except India] 1902 but lingered on until worn out. Soldier has 2 good conduct badges but no rank: depending on date represents at least 5 years good conduct, earlier was 6. Cap indistinct but looks like the successor to the Brodrick therefore photo provisional date 1906/7 but the frock/cap evidence does conflict a bit. Right hand cannot read photographer but looks like fusilier in a typical c. 1906 KD frock India Egypt or indeed anywhere hot.

Better detail of both would help.

[Barrysh]

Hi, sorry about the photos but there's not a lot you can do with 50K max. I have cropped one of the cap on it's own and one of the name of the photographer. anything else I can help with please let me know.

Forgive my ignorance but does this photo show he was a junior officer of some kind even before the war. He would be about 23 when he got married in 1904 and definately a soldier then but not in 1910.

What age would he be when he first joined up. Most of the James Agnew I have found have been a private during the war.

Thanks Barry

[Muerrisch]

They zooms are fine: the left hand is post-c. 1906.

The other photo is clearly Crete: the First Battalion of his regiment was in Crete and Malta 1907 to 1911.

He shows no evidence of being more than a private soldier ...... would be called a fusilier these days.

[FROGSMILE]

This rundown shows the movements of his battalion and it is notable that they were at Gallipoli in 1915 which would fit with the Dardanelles family folklore and probably indicates that he was recalled to his old battalion as a Reservist upon the outbreak of war.

Upon outbreak of war - 2nd Secunderabad Brigade - India. (Disbanded in Oct 1914).

1st Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. 04 Aug 1914 - Oct 1914. To the - 29th (British) Division.

87th Brigade. 1st Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. Jan 1915 - 05 Feb 1918. To the 36th Division.

109th Brigade. (3rd Ulster Brigade). 1st Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. 05 Feb 1918 - 11 Nov 1918.

Details of the Regimental Museum are here: http://www.inniskill...lling-fusiliers

[Barrysh]

Thanks for all the help so far. As often happens when you are searching for an ancestor you have to make basic assumptions (best guesses) and work backwards. Am I way off the mark so far.

The photo on the left with the 5 button Scarlet Frock was taken around 1905 and he had 2 good conduct badges indicating 5 years service so he joined up aged about 20, was that the norm ?

This time was was probably served in India ?

He started having children again in 1910 so assume he probably came out of the army about 1909 after serving a couple of years in Crete/Malta ?

He was a member of the 1st Batallion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers ?

Just shows my ignorance that because he had a cap and staff that confirmed he was an officer, is that a ceremonial uniform that all soldiers were given.

Thanks Barry

ps I am not trying to prove he was an officer. I'd be just as content to know he was a private as a captain it's just that I need to know to search for his military record

[Muerrisch]

Thanks for all the help so far. As often happens when you are searching for an ancestor you have to make basic assumptions (best guesses) and work backwards. Am I way off the mark so far.

The photo on the left with the 5 button Scarlet Frock was taken around 1905 and he had 2 good conduct badges indicating 5 years service so he joined up aged about 20, was that the norm ?

This time was was probably served in India ?

He started having children again in 1910 so assume he probably came out of the army about 1909 after serving a couple of years in Crete/Malta ?

He was a member of the 1st Batallion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers ?

Just shows my ignorance that because he had a cap and staff that confirmed he was an officer, is that a ceremonial uniform that all soldiers were given.

Thanks Barry

ps I am not trying to prove he was an officer. I'd be just as content to know he was a private as a captain it's just that I need to know to search for his military record

The two GC badges were for 5 years and more .... the next did not come until 12 years. Most soldiers never saw the third because the usual terms of engagement [which did fluctuate] gave him an out after 7/8 years, or 12. To stay beyond that one was working towards the pension. And the scarlet frock was "second best" issue, the cane/stick whatever was mandatory outside barracks for all junior ranks. The evidence for India is thin ...... especially with the Crete "proof". I would forget India for his early service now we have better evidence.