trajan Posted 6 May , 2012 Share Posted 6 May , 2012 Oh, don't worry, I've been following and going green with envy... (But there again I got another Russian M91 in an Austrian ersatz scabbard today , so that's 2 Austrian and one German M91 ersatz scabbards! The 'new' M91 has a nice Russian marking on it, but the top end of the socket has been cut away, leaving only about 1.5 cm or so, and the screwdriver tip has been pointed, and at some point in the summer after I can around to cleaning this and the others up I'll post them.) But back to the S>S's bayonets, yes, they are all very lovely - so keep the photo's coming! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2012 I've noticed (both on this site and elsewhere) that most of these early Aussie marked 1907s are EFD produced and dated to late 1911 - is this consistent with what you've seen? Some have the more common MD markings, and some have no Australian markings but have ended up in Australian scabbards (weaker proof I know). PS. Someone may want to put in a call to Trajan, I find it almost inconceivable that he would be able to view this thread without posting! On the first question, no not really - they are not just limited to Enfield. All the makers are represented but they do come in production 'blocks' ie. a bunch with very similar dates. I am putting together some data on these, and the only ones found to date from 1911 have been Enfields, so to that extent you are correct. Other years do have different makers. Regarding the scabbards, it is very common to see P1907's of any kind jammed into an Australian scabbard, especially from the US as that is where all the Aussie surplus went.! However a scabbard is NO proof at all of the history of a bayonet. They are separate items entirely and unless they have matching markings or dates they are unlikely to be a 'set'. And Trajan did chime in earlier on in the thread, but I'm afraid that I bagged him for asking too many questions.! Anyway he's now lost interest and is busy looking at postcards ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 May , 2012 Share Posted 6 May , 2012 ... And Trajan did chime in earlier on in the thread... Anyway he's now lost interest and is busy looking at postcards ... ... Shock, gasp, horror! Postcards are fun but bayonets are nicer!!! And even nicer when they are of the rarer kind, as with my M91's with their ersatz scabbards, a pretty trio indeed! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2012 Shock, gasp, horror! Postcards are fun but bayonets are nicer!!! And even nicer when they are of the rarer kind, as with my M91's with their ersatz scabbards, a pretty trio indeed! Yeah well I've still got a few tricks up the old sleeve, hows about I match your 'Three of a Kind' and raise you some - heck I might just go 'all in'.! Been cleaning a few more today ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2012 All right, so here is a few more of the older photos to fill in until I can get more of the others cleaned, things have been somewhat busy of late. So this one is also a well used 'battle bayonet' from the other side, a Turkish M1890 made by Weyersberg, Kirschbaum of Solingen in 1891. It does show evidence of some sharpening but retains a fairly nice patina overall. The muzzle ring looks to be bent back by 'battle damage'. The very tip of the ring has a small round indentation on the forward facing side, which makes me wonder if it was hit by an incoming round.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2012 And of course I'd have to squeeze in the pick of my P1888's somewhere.! Its tough having to choose from them but I think this is THE one. This is a Mk.I (second type) that was made by Wilkinson in 1896, and it came with its matching scabbard (I think.?) which is also dated in '96. I would class the condition of this one as virtually 'mint' but at the same time it looks to have been issued with some markings on the pommel. It also has some interesting notches carved into the grip. The inspection marks on the timber are still as crisp as the day they were stamped. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 7 May , 2012 Share Posted 7 May , 2012 S>S, that Turkish 1890 is a beauty - along with the 1903s they are one of my favourite bayonets. There must have been some serious trauma to bend the muzzle ring like that, although presumably if it was hit by a bullet that would probably do it (and if that is what happened then I imagine the owner must have been exceptionally lucky). The 1888 is in fantastic condition - presumably you cant make out the markings on the pommel? Trajan - I think its time for some photos of the M91s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2012 There must have been some serious trauma to bend the muzzle ring like that, although presumably if it was hit by a bullet that would probably do it ... The 1888 is in fantastic condition - presumably you cant make out the markings on the pommel? Yeah it sure took a hit - while I can't be certain how it happened, the indent left behind does look remarkably like a partly spent round hitting steel plate, so ... The markings on the P'88 are some of the cleanest and most easily 'made out' that I've ever seen, problem is I have no idea of what they mean, unusual.?? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 8 May , 2012 Share Posted 8 May , 2012 Whilst I would love to take this opportunity to get one back on you in the bayonet realm, Im afraid this is not the time... I've got no idea sorry. Potentially just a rack number? Hows the cleaning going? Im looking forward to your next posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2012 Given that the word going round is that the forum is 'doomed' (or at least taking a short break) ... Reminds me of John Cleese "it's NOT dead, just sleeping" ... ha,ha Anyway I think it may be time for some fun before we go on hiatus, so who's up for an ID challenge.? (At least this break will help me catch up and get some more photos) My collection is based around the 'Sword Bayonets' of the GW and I like to give all the countries a bit of exposure wherever possible, while still keeping within those limits. So the next few items will be from those 'other' countries, and while these may never make my favourites category, they still rate mention mainly due to their 'exotic' nature. With the photo shown below, I need someone to write the explanatory caption for this example, giving some background and how it might have been used during the war. So I'd probably start with the common name and where it was made, and which rifle it would attach to, and maybe the country that used it and name it was designated with.? Cheers, S>S EDIT. This bayonet is for the Remington rolling block rifle which the French ordered. They called it the "Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1914" for the "Fusil Remington Mle.1915". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 May , 2012 Share Posted 10 May , 2012 Firstly - whats this about the forum going on sabbatical?? Terrible news! Secondly - and this is way out of my field of (relative) expertise, but isn't that a German (Weyersberg?) produced Mauser bayonet that was typically shipped to Argentina before WW1?? Didn't they normally come with aluminium or brass grips? As far as I'm aware Argentina wasn't involved in WW1, so my guess is the Germans may have retained a pile of these and used them for second line troops when bayonets were scarce in 1915-16?? Im probably way off the mark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 10 May , 2012 Share Posted 10 May , 2012 ... Reminds me of John Cleese "it's NOT dead, just sleeping" ... ha,ha (coughs) Michael Palin I think you mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2012 Im probably way off the mark... Well at least you got that bit correct JS.!! No, this one is a bit more of a challenge ... ahh that's why its called an "ID challenge" ... And thanks for the correction Andrew, it has been a while since I last saw it.! They were in the same movie weren't they.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 May , 2012 Share Posted 13 May , 2012 ... So I'd probably start with the common name and where it was made, and which rifle it would attach to, and maybe the country that used it and name it was designated with.?... Hi S>S, So there is some form of life - and even a form of life "as we know it" - after a GWF upgrade! OK, quick thoughts and a quick check suggests Belgium (as in "Poor, tiny..."), for a Mauser 1889, but the muzzle ring looks a bit too low for that... So I'll go for a rare French Remington rolling block 1914... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2012 There are some similarities with the Argie M1909, but also differences in the pommel, grips, crossguard and blade, so close but certainly no cigar. But Trajan is on the money going for the Remington rolling block which is correct. I also have a couple more pics to show for my "three of a kind". Yes it appears we are all back safe and sound - reports of the forums demise as usual have been grossly exaggerated and obviously unfounded. Unfortunately it was down for such a brief time I haven't even recovered from all the 'end of the world' partying, let alone caught up with anything.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2012 This is the second instalment of the ID challenge. Another 'exotic' bayonet to perhaps satisfy any hook quillon fetishes that may be out there.? Anyway we need to know what it is, so if anyone cares to take a shot at the identification.? If someone gets all three correct they may win a prize.! Cheers, S>S EDIT. This is the American made version M1889 bayonet made by Hopkins & Allen for the Belgian Mauser. They called it "Bajonet voor het Mausergeweer 1889". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2012 Yeah well I've still got a few tricks up the old sleeve, hows about I match your 'Three of a Kind' and raise you some ... Well this is the last of the trio that I'm putting down to match Trajans "three of a kind" M91's.! These are all 'different' but at the same time 'similar' ... First we need to get the ID's for all three, and then for the "triple word score" I was wondering if someone could tell us what they have in common.? Cheers, S>S EDIT. This is the Russian variant bayonet for the Winchester rifle which they used. Based on the M1895 the Russian designation was "Vintovka Vinchestya obr.1915". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 May , 2012 Share Posted 15 May , 2012 ... This is the second instalment of the ID challenge. Belgium 1889 Mauser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 May , 2012 Share Posted 15 May , 2012 ...Well this is the last of the trio ... Russian 1895 Winchester? ..."triple word score"... Trajans "three of a kind" M91's... All made outside country of use? (says he hurridley I'm breaking from cooking dinner!). Yes, will do the M91's but haven't cleaned any of them yet! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 May , 2012 Share Posted 15 May , 2012 (edited) Necessary preface has to be a quote from S.Pepys: "And so to bed" - certainly so over here as it's the nipper's story- and bedtime [after they enjoyed my pasta e fagioli!]... So, how did I do? Edited 15 May , 2012 by TRAJAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2012 So, how did I do? Not bad Trajan - I'd give that a pass mark, but I'm surprised that you have time for anything, what with taking care of those 'nippers' - they look like trouble.!! So the first is for the Remington rolling block rifle which the French ordered. They called it the "Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1914" for the "Fusil Remington Mle.1915". The second is the American made version M1889 bayonet made by Hopkins & Allen for the Belgian Mauser. They called it "Bajonet voor het Mausergeweer 1889". And third is the Russian variant bayonet for the Winchester rifle which they used. Based on the M1895 the Russian designation was "Vintovka Vinchestya obr.1915". (See a pic of the Winchester in use with the Russians in this thread here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=180294) All these bayonets were made in America for the Allied nations during the earlier part of the war, to help overcome the weapon shortages caused by the mobilisation. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 May , 2012 Share Posted 16 May , 2012 ... I'm surprised that you have time for anything, what with taking care of those 'nippers' - they look like trouble.!! ... All these bayonets were made in America for the Allied nations during the earlier part of the war, to help overcome the weapon shortages caused by the mobilisation.... Yep, it is difficult to find time to even sit down for more than 5 minutes when the nippers are around, especially at this stage in their life, when the avatar one thinks he is a pentaceratops and the smaller one believes he is an anklyosaurus... BUT, it's always possible to glance quickly through stored photographs and the like, which is how I identified these ones! Just didn't know who had made them, so thanks for the extra information! Mind you, I never fail to be amazed at the high qualitity of your various bits and pieces - even if they came to you originally in a somewhat less than appetising or appealing form. Apart from being very diificult to find, when I do find anything over here the quality usually leaves much to be desired - as you'll see when I get around to putting more photo's on the GWF! Talking of which I have downloaded another Osmanli marked one for you which I'll add to that thread later. Şerefe! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2012 So getting back to more of my favourites, and continuing on with the poker analogies ... I think this is my equivalent of going "all in".!! No identification required with this one, its a well known type of bayonet but they don't come much rarer than this, a GW dated hookie. Yes while being marked with the ER cypher, it appears this Wilkinson was originally surplus to contract, but later accepted into service. The date marked is December 1914 which would tie in with the shortage of weaponry due to mobilisation and a scramble for resources. You would imagine that all stocks of weaponry, including those stored in contractors warehouses would have been sought out for usage. As apart from the acceptance date everything else with the bayonet seems to be in order, including regimental unit marks and numbers. This example is very much as it would have looked, with bright blade without any sharpening or polishing, and with original bluing intact. Its very unusual to find line regiment bayonets in such condition, but this miracle even came with the exceptionally scarce Mk.I scabbard.! Anyway there is no question that this example sits right up there in my collection, and as a GW collector this is probably as good as it gets. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 May , 2012 Share Posted 17 May , 2012 ... while being marked with the ER cypher ... The date marked is December 1914 ... Now that is a nice bayonet and a very nice piece of information! I have oft wondered if those month/year stamps were done when the piece was issued or when it was made, and although I have seen comments that they were the former, this is a very nice piece of archaeological information to have and see for ones' self. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2012 I think it very much depends who the maker was eg. was it a contractor like Wilkinson or a RSAF like Enfield.? Also when it was made, in wartime or pre-war.? At different times there were various arrangements in place regarding the production of bayonets. Before the war the contractors only supplied small numbers. And those contracts would have stipulated specific numbers for delivery. Any extra production that was surplus to contract would have been put aside for later. This all changed during the war when the contractors were called upon to produce vast numbers of bayonets, much of the late-war stuff went straight to stores. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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