Jones from Liverpool Uniform ID

[Harry De]

Can anyone identify this uniform. The wearer is William Jones (my Grandfather) b Liverpool 1/7/1879. I think he may have just married my Grandmother Rhoda Tate (in Liverpool 1912). He then appears in New Zealand at Trentham Army Camp in the Quartermasters stores. He was living in Auckland New Zealand in 1916 with his new family, and never left the country.

Thanks from the far south

Harry

[Sandie Hayes]

I've no idea!

Does this help? From 'Regimental Kilts':

Highland orders of dress (glengarry, kilt & sporran etc.) are authorised for wear by the New Zealand Scottish Squadron of the RNZAC, at the discretion of the Squadron Commander. They are also authorised for the pipes and drums of the 5th (Wellington West Coast & Taranaki) Battalion Group.

[Harry De]

Thanks Sandie

This photo would have been taken in Liverpool so probably a Liverpool Regiment.

Im guessing he joined up in Liverpool before 1912

Was he sent out perhaps to help setup Trentham which was a new base?

[Sandie Hayes]

I think this answers your question:

From

http://www.liverpool....uk/history.htm

The Liverpool Scottish was formed as an infantry battalion in 1900 in response to the crisis of the Boer War.

It was raised from amongst the body of highly educated and professional young Scotsmen in the city as the 8th (Scottish) Volunteer Battalion, The King's (Liverpool Regiment).There was an annual subscription of 10 shillings (50p) and an entrance fee of £2.

The first Commanding Officer was Colonel C. Forbes Bell V.D

The Forbes tartan kilt was adopted by the regiment and the Highland full dress uniform featured a khaki tunic with scarlet collar and facings together with a feather bonnet or glengarry and tartan plaid.

HQ was established in Fraser Street in the Liverpool city centre, the home of the Scottish until 1967.

The Battalion was redesignated in 1908 on the establishment of the Territorial Force as the 10th (Scottish) Battalion, The King's Liverpool Regiment.

*Most notably, Noel Chavasse served with the 10th KLR.

[Sandie Hayes]

Are you able to see his Glengarry badge in any detail?

[pbrydon]

Wiiliam Jones is not wearing the uniform of the Liverpool Scottish,the tartan of the kilt,the glengarry ( lack of dicing ) and hose tops are all wrong that regiment.

P.B.

[Sandie Hayes]

So not a Liverpool regiment? Any suggestions?

[Ian Riley]

I think this answers your question:

From

http://www.liverpool....uk/history.htm

The Liverpool Scottish was formed as an infantry battalion in 1900 in response to the crisis of the Boer War.

It was raised from amongst the body of highly educated and professional young Scotsmen in the city as the 8th (Scottish) Volunteer Battalion, The King's (Liverpool Regiment).There was an annual subscription of 10 shillings (50p) and an entrance fee of £2.

The first Commanding Officer was Colonel C. Forbes Bell V.D

The Forbes tartan kilt was adopted by the regiment and the Highland full dress uniform featured a khaki tunic with scarlet collar and facings together with a feather bonnet or glengarry and tartan plaid.

HQ was established in Fraser Street in the Liverpool city centre, the home of the Scottish until 1967.

The Battalion was redesignated in 1908 on the establishment of the Territorial Force as the 10th (Scottish) Battalion, The King's Liverpool Regiment.

*Most notably, Noel Chavasse served with the 10th KLR.

I am afraid, that as the author of the website quoted (soon to be revamped), this man is not Liverpool Scottish. The uniform details quoted are in the context of the original full dress volunteer uniform of 1900. His hose tops are wrong for Liverpool Scottish, there is no apparent white sett to the kilt which generalloy shows clearly (the colour image shown on the website is not very good - too much brown- and the matter is complicated by the WW1 Forbes tartan being a rather lighter than the tartan in use in recent times (and today).

The glengarry of the Liverpool Scottish carries white, red and black (sometimes described as blue or even green) dicing. The glenagarry here looks as if it carries no dicing (such a glengarry was worn by pipers of the Liverpool Scottish). The bonnet badge looks far too large to be Liverpool Scottish

In fact the badge has the oval appearance of that of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. The hosetops are similar to those of the A&SH and the tartan is also similar (although tartans can often be deceptive in black and white photos depending on the type of film stock). The glengarry of the A&SH carries a prominent triple line of red and white dicing not present here although there is something rather peculiar about the headress. Has the photo been cleaned/tided/photoshopped at any time or perhaps even 'improved' in the original studio? There seems to be a suggestion of something on the lower edge which is too wide to be the leather sweatband but not prominent enough to be dicing. The front edge of the glengarry and the hair line also looks slightly odd to me.

Edit: There is also something about his right forearm around the lady's shoulder that does not look quite right to me either from the line of the arm or the length though I may be becoming paranoid. It certainly would not be the first photo to be doctored (for whatever reason) in the original photographer's studio.

Ian

PS 9999 other men served alongside or after Captain Noel Chavasse VC and Bar MC in the Liverpool Scottish in WW1; we are equally proud of them all!

Edited 2 April , 2012 by Ian Riley

[Harry De]

Thank you all for your responses. I will go with Argyll and Sutherlands and see if this gets me further

Harry

[4thGordons]

Thank you all for your responses. I will go with Argyll and Sutherlands and see if this gets me further

Harry

[/quotE]

Just saw this - I would say based on hose tops and the size/shape of the badge 99% Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, although I would usually expect a diced glengarry (3 rows red and white)as indicated above.

Chris