shippingsteel Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 Here is an interesting postcard showing some musketry drill on board ship during the war. Anybody care to guess what the rifle is.? I have added the postcard below, linked from this page on the net http://www.ebay.com/itm/BATTLESHIP-RIFLE-DRILL-BAYONETS-FIXED Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 They are Arisaka rifles, probably Type 38, known as the .256 inch Pattern 1907 in British service. The RN received the first 50,000 in about November 1914 to release SMLEs for the army. Although we also received the earlier Type 30 (Pattern 1900) from Japan in subsequent deliveries, I have only ever seen these marked to army units. It is a very nice photo, but fancy asking me to guess what they are! . Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2012 It is a very nice photo, but fancy asking me to guess what they are! Dammit TonyE - trust you to chip in on this one.!! Of course I'd expect YOU to know the answer ... I did post it up for the other children to play, you know ... SPOILSPORT.!! Oh well, I guess its now your turn to post up something of interest to keep the rest of us amused for a while (and not a 10,000 word PhD essay.!) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 I will try to think of something shortly, but I am off to St.Louis on Tuesday for the International Ammunition Association show, so am a bit busy. Of course I got in quick, I doubt if there is anyone else on the planet anoraky enough to have written a whole book about it! Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 2 April , 2012 Share Posted 2 April , 2012 They are Arisaka rifles, probably Type 38, known as the .256 inch Pattern 1907 in British service. The RN received the first 50,000 in about November 1914 to release SMLEs for the army. Although we also received the earlier Type 30 (Pattern 1900) from Japan in subsequent deliveries, I have only ever seen these marked to army units. It is a very nice photo, but fancy asking me to guess what they are! . Regards TonyE In the past I've had two bayonets for this rifle, one marked R.M. and the other R.M. cancelled & 8.MAN. Presumably the Royal Marines would have marked their rifles as well as the bayonets. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 2 April , 2012 Share Posted 2 April , 2012 In the past I've had two bayonets for this rifle, one marked R.M. and the other R.M. cancelled & 8.MAN. Presumably the Royal Marines would have marked their rifles as well as the bayonets. - SW Yes here is a (poor) photo of a Royal Marine marked Type 38 and also another one marked to 8 Man. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2012 TonyE, I believe that Sommewalker may have picked up on this comment of yours - "I have only ever seen these marked to army units" when the weapons are obviously also found with the Royal Navy Marine markings on them as well. You may just need to clarify that you were talking about the two different Models of Arisaka rifles, and that one type was mainly used by the Army. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 2 April , 2012 Share Posted 2 April , 2012 ....Although we also received the earlier Type 30 (Pattern 1900) from Japan in subsequent deliveries, I have only ever seen these marked to army units. TonyE TonyE, I believe that Sommewalker may have picked up on this comment of yours - "I have only ever seen these marked to army units" when the weapons are obviously also found with the Royal Navy Marine markings on them as well. You may just need to clarify that you were talking about the two different Models of Arisaka rifles, and that one type was mainly used by the Army. Cheers, S>S I do wish people would actually read what I posted. My post said that I had never seen these i.e. the Type 30 rifle, marked to the Royal Navy (or Royal Marines for that matter) and I still maintain that. Type 30 rifles are not "Obviously found with Royal Marine markings as well". Type 30 bayonets are though. It was perfectly plain and grammatical English so what was the problem understanding it? Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2012 It was perfectly plain and grammatical English so what was the problem understanding it? I never had a problem with it, but excuse me for butting in. And by the sounds of it your holiday can't come soon enough ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 In the past I've had two bayonets for this rifle, one marked R.M. and the other R.M. cancelled & 8.MAN. Presumably the Royal Marines would have marked their rifles as well as the bayonets. - SW Yes here is a (poor) photo of a Royal Marine marked Type 38 and also another one marked to 8 Man. Found this old thread following up on MAN markings and was simply amazed! Anyone know how long they held on to those Arisaki rifles? Is TonyE's book (post no. 4) still around? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 (edited) I have Tony's books and will check when I get home from work. My recollection (dim) is that most of the Arisakas held by the UK were eventually sent to Russia (in 1916) who also had large numbers of them but I will need to check on all of that as it is Friday morning, the start of what promises to be a verrry long day..... at the end of a very lonng week. Chris EDITED TO CORRECT TYPO! 1916 not 196? Edited 24 April , 2015 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 I have Tony's books and will check when I get home from work. My recollection (dim) is that most of the Arisakas held by the UK were eventually sent to Russia (in 196?) who also had large numbers of them but I will need to check on all of that as it is Friday morning, the start of what promises to be a verrry long day..... at the end of a very lonng week. Chris Thanks! And Gechmis olsun - 'May it (the day) pass (quickly)'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 just a note - there was a typo above in my post - I meant to type 1916? not 196?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Found this old thread following up on MAN markings and was simply amazed! Anyone know how long they held on to those Arisaki rifles? Is TonyE's book (post no. 4) still around? Trajan Trajan, The ' Arisaka ' Bayonet along with the rifle were announced in the List of Changes 17213 dated 24th February 1915. Originally intended for Land use and later also extended for Naval use. The bayonet was declared obsolete in British service in October 1921. Some 150,000 Arisaka rifles and bayonets were originally purchased during 1914/15 with the official approval date of 14th February 1915. The issue was extended to the British Navy on 15th June 1915. 128,000 Arisaka rifles and bayonets were shipped to Russia in 1916. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 ... The ' Arisaka ' Bayonet along with the rifle were announced in the List of Changes 17213 dated 24th February 1915. Originally intended for Land use and later also extended for Naval use. The bayonet was declared obsolete in British service in October 1921.... Thanks LF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Thanks LF... Trajan, Also, remember the Arisaka rifles referred to in LoC 17213 were in .256 calibre and were both Arisaka Pattern 1900 and Pattern 1907 rifles. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Also, remember the Arisaka rifles referred to in LoC 17213 were in .256 calibre and were both Arisaka Pattern 1900 and Pattern 1907 rifles. My knowledge of rifles and their bayonet lugs is pitiful in the extreme... Don't have any to try them on! So, what is the difference, please, between the Arisaka fitting and any GB rifles? I.E., would an Arisaka bayonet fit onto a a British rifle in current use in the appropriate period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Hello Julian, It's a totally different mounting arrangement despite looking similar at first glance, the 07 bayonet ring engages the nose cap 'boss' whilst the pommel locking system slides over and locks over the rear boss underneath. The Arisaka rear boss is too wide to engage the 07 pommel slot and of course the only place for the bayonet ring, which has no where to go, is over the Arisaka barrel ( where it is not intended to be). I did not bother with measurements, but the short answer to your question is, no, either way they don't fit. At this time I do not have an Arisaka bayonet and had to reverse your question, sorry. regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 My knowledge of rifles and their bayonet lugs is pitiful in the extreme... Don't have any to try them on! So, what is the difference, please, between the Arisaka fitting and any GB rifles? I.E., would an Arisaka bayonet fit onto a a British rifle in current use in the appropriate period? Trajan, As khaki has said, the answer is no, the Japanese Arisaka bayonet would not fit the standard British WW1 SMLE rifle, however, there was a rare conversion to a number of SMLE rifles which have a modified nosecap converted and fitted with an extended sword bar so as to take the Japanese Arisaka Type 30 bayonet. It is believed that these SMLE conversions were carried out in the Far East ( Indonesia ) to make use of the then abundance of surplus Japanese Arisaka bayonets, with the converted SMLE rifles and their Arisaka bayonets being used to arm troops and police units in the Far East. Ian Skennerton also refers to these converted SMLE rifles fitted with Type 30 Japanese Arisaka bayonets on page 208 of his Lee-Enfield reference book. Attached are 2 photographs of this very rare modified SMLE rifle fitted with an Arisaka Type 30 Bayonet. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 April , 2015 Share Posted 24 April , 2015 Details of the converted SMLE nosecap and extended sword bar to take the Arisaka Type 30 Bayonet. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts