Rimmed Cartridge Question

[mullet]

Just had a look at a rimmed cartridge (just the rear section) a pal found near Hill 60. Larger than a .303 and it doesn't look like a Lebel in my limited experience.

The head stamps are very corroded, with the exception of the number 14 which lies radially rathe than the rest of the marks, which appear concentric.

The base of the cartridge appears to be recessed surrounding the primer, the rim effectively sitting proud of the 'flat' base of the cartridge.

Anyone got any ideas as to it's providence, and what other head stamps I might be looking for to confirm origin?

I guess that the 14 relates to year of manufacture.

Best regards

Andy

[calibre792x57.y]

Just had a look at a rimmed cartridge (just the rear section) a pal found near Hill 60. Larger than a .303 and it doesn't look like a Lebel in my limited experience.

The head stamps are very corroded, with the exception of the number 14 which lies radially rathe than the rest of the marks, which appear concentric.

The base of the cartridge appears to be recessed surrounding the primer, the rim effectively sitting proud of the 'flat' base of the cartridge.

Anyone got any ideas as to it's providence, and what other head stamps I might be looking for to confirm origin?

I guess that the 14 relates to year of manufacture.

Best regards

Andy

Sounds like an 8mm French case, with the radial marking and the description of the primer and raised rim. - SW

[4thGordons]

Sounds like an 8mm French case, with the radial marking and the description of the primer and raised rim. - SW

+1

That was my immediate reaction too.

Chris

[mullet]

Thanks chaps... I shall pass it along.Andy

[TonyE]

Normal French headstamping practice is for the case type to be at the 12 o'clock position, "ART.D", and the metal supplier and manufacturer at 6 o'clock , both concentric. The year quarter is at 9 o'clock and the last two digits of the year at 3 o'clock, both as you term it, radially.

The recess around the primer is so that when in the tubular magazine of the Lebel rifle it holds the tip of the bullet of the round behind it and prevents it from striking the primer.

Regards

TonyE

[MikB]

The recess around the primer is so that when in the tubular magazine of the Lebel rifle it holds the tip of the bullet of the round behind it and prevents it from striking the primer.

Regards

TonyE

Thank you Tony, I'd often wondered how they controlled the pointed bullets in a tubular mag. Traditional practice was to use flatnose bullets as in (eg.) American 44-40 and 30-30 lever-action tubular magazine rifles.

As far as you know, was the recessed casehead reliable? Seems to me that dirt or damage to the mag could disarrange one or more rounds enough to produce a dangerous condition? I suppose it was reasonably well-protected from damage, but foreign matter must have been a very frequent condition.

Regards,

MikB

[mullet]

1333269151[/url]' post='1733551']

Normal French headstamping practice is for the case type to be at the 12 o'clock position, "ART.D", and the metal supplier and manufacturer at 6 o'clock , both concentric. The year quarter is at 9 o'clock and the last two digits of the year at 3 o'clock, both as you term it, radially.

The recess around the primer is so that when in the tubular magazine of the Lebel rifle it holds the tip of the bullet of the round behind it and prevents it from striking the primer.

Regards

TonyE

Thanks Tony, that makes great sense. Were the bullets of a more blunt point than the 'spitzer' style?

Andy

[mullet]

1333269151[/url]' post='1733551']

Normal French headstamping practice is for the case type to be at the 12 o'clock position, "ART.D", and the metal supplier and manufacturer at 6 o'clock , both concentric. The year quarter is at 9 o'clock and the last two digits of the year at 3 o'clock, both as you term it, radially.

The recess around the primer is so that when in the tubular magazine of the Lebel rifle it holds the tip of the bullet of the round behind it and prevents it from striking the primer.

Regards

TonyE

Thanks Tony, that makes great sense. Were the bullets of a more blunt point than the 'spitzer' style?

Andy

[mullet]

1333269151[/url]' post='1733551']

Normal French headstamping practice is for the case type to be at the 12 o'clock position, "ART.D", and the metal supplier and manufacturer at 6 o'clock , both concentric. The year quarter is at 9 o'clock and the last two digits of the year at 3 o'clock, both as you term it, radially.

The recess around the primer is so that when in the tubular magazine of the Lebel rifle it holds the tip of the bullet of the round behind it and prevents it from striking the primer.

Regards

TonyE

Thanks Tony, that makes great sense. Were the bullets of a more blunt point than the 'spitzer' style?

Andy

[TonyE]

No, the bullets were the normal spitzer type and the system seemed to work well. Of course, the other factor that helped was the taper of the Lebel cartridge case which meant that the natural position of the bullet point was quite low when in a horizontal position.

However, when the Lebel rifle was originally introduced in 1886 the ammunition had a normal flat base without the groove and the bullets had a small flat on the nose

Regards

Tonye

[mullet]

Thanks Tony, SW and Chris, for taking the time to reply.

Best wishes, Andy