Cap badge & uniform identification.

[simonpg]

Re. Henry Hubert Holmes

I need help with the regiment and also the period, is it WW1 as the soldier was born in 1860? There is a possible WW1 medal card for a man of this name (Henry H Holmes) which includes the RE as his last regt.

To me it looks most likely to be a RE badge, but there are some possible alternatives.

Thanks

Simon

[Guest]

Looks like RE.

Mike

[dundeesown]

I would agree with Royal Engineers.

Gary

[daggers]

The grenade badges above the sergeant's chevrons confirm RE.

D

[SteveE]

Royal Engineers definitely and I was going to add that his overseas service chevrons are on the wrong sleeve but it looks as if the image has been reversed.

Steve

[thor432]

Hi Simon

I had a look at what I belive is his Medal Index Card, H H Homles 8298, 25176,257676, WR/126798, if this is your man then there are two service records on Ancestry,

Dave

[Andrew Upton]

Royal Engineers definitely and I was going to add that his overseas service chevrons are on the wrong sleeve but it looks as if the image has been reversed.

It definitely has - and round the right way:

http://postimage.org/image/i480uchbb/

[simonpg]

re. Henry Hubert Holmes.

Thanks for the help everyone, although I do have a further question :-

Henry was 54 at the start of the war. He has overseas service chevrons. Does this mean overseas service at any time in the past, e.g. Boer War, or is only pertinent to WW1 service?

I ask as I'm having trouble finding his medal card. I have eliminated the one I thought was his, and the only other candidate just gives the initial H. Holmes, but he is a Sgt and in the RE. If that's not him then this is why I ask re. overseas service, as a possible lack of a card (other than the above) may indicate home service only.

thanks

Simon

[Andrew Upton]

He has overseas service chevrons. Does this mean overseas service at any time in the past, e.g. Boer War, or is only pertinent to WW1 service?

I ask as I'm having trouble finding his medal card. I have eliminated the one I thought was his, and the only other candidate just gives the initial H. Holmes, but he is a Sgt and in the RE. If that's not him then this is why I ask re. overseas service, as a possible lack of a card (other than the above) may indicate home service only.

The are only pertinent to WW1 service. After they were introduced for service in 1918, each soldier was essentially entitled to one stripe the first day they served overseas, and not entitled to the next until he had accumulated a further 12 months overseas service (with an allowance of up to 4 weeks home leave to count towards it still). For a soldier who had served overseas in 1914 the first stripe was red, for a soldier who hadn't it (and all subsequent stripes, even for those who had served overseas in 1914) were blue.

Given Holmes is only wearing 4 blue stripes, the earliest date for this picture must be sometime in around early 1919 at minimum (this would fit with a lack of medal ribbands up). If he returned home and was transferred from one unit to the Royal Engineers AND promoted to Sergeant in it in the UK, this rank and unit may not appear on his MIC as it would not necessarily have been considered relevant to the information required to name the medals. So a MIC without either on it might still be worth considering.

[Stebie9173]

With 4 blue overseas chevrons he is likely to have a 1914-15 Star, however, but probably not a 1914 Star.

I believe the 1918 Electoral Roll shows him (as Henry Hubert Holmes) at 310 Trinity Road, S.W.18 (Springfield Ward, Wandsworth) with his with Sarah Elizabeth Holmes, but doesn't flag him as an Absent Voter (i.e. away on war service).

In 1922 on the Electoral Rolls is a Charles Edward Holmes, presumably his son (who was 15in 1911). He was No. 138030 and WR/550010 according to service records and pension records on Ancestry. Incidentally, he was also a Sergeant in the Royal Engineers, but the man above was not born in 1896!!! Charles was a clerk on the GWR so ended up on the Inland Waterways and Docks in Salonika!

Henry H Holmes was at home in 252 Trinity Road at the time of the 1901 Census, so service in the Boer War is not all that likely.

Not sure if you've seen the Marriage Certificate of his son William Hubert Holmes in August 1919, but Henry Hubert Holmes is listed as an "Instructor of the Blind"* on that. William Hubert is shown as an "Officer of Customs & Excise".

* Any link to St Dunstan's?

The 1918 Wandsworth AVL is actually online and shows:

310 Trinity Road,

Charles Edward Holmes, 550010 Corporal, Inland Waterways & Transport, Royal Engineers

William Hubert Holmes, 204081 Private 1st Class R.A.F., 207th Training Depot Station (Photo).

Henry Hubert Holmes is not listed.

I wonder if Henry Hubert Holmes is wearing Charles' tunic?

Charles served in Salonika from 16-3-1916 to 4-5-1919 and his overseas chevrons qualification was? Four blue chevrons - entitlement dates for 16-3-1916, 16-3-1917, 16-3-1918 and 16-3-1919.

Steve.

[simonpg]

My thanks to everyone for their valuable input. It seems to be a distinct possibility that Henry is wearing his son Charles' uniform, unless Henry's service happened to somehow coincide with his son's service.

I have put it all to the chap I am helping on this for him to digest.

Thanks again.

regards

Simon