spconnolly007 Posted 25 March , 2012 Share Posted 25 March , 2012 Amongst my modest medal collection is a Victory medal that I once tried to identify, but gave up on due to the fact that the recipient was a Hughes(ancestry throws up 1000's)but mainly because his initials were unreadable due to what I thought was a slight dent to the edge. Whilst studying it yesterday, I noticed that the whole circumference has a line around the edge, which is obviously original, due to a poor stamping. Using his service no. and regiment, I finally got a hit on ancestry and I now know his full name and the fact that he was awarded a SWB. My question is, are such stampings an odditiy and if so, does it add or retract any value? It seems a shame that the man who recieved it would not of been able to recognise his own initials after claiming his medals. Regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipperary Posted 25 March , 2012 Share Posted 25 March , 2012 Hi Sean if the number of MIC's that have returned for adjustment next to one or more medals is anything to go by i would say mistakes were quite common, add to them the medals that were not returned for correction there would have been a lot.john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarke Posted 25 March , 2012 Share Posted 25 March , 2012 G'day Sean, I've seen to many to say that it wasn't common and it can make research difficult as you have pointed out. I've found in most situations that it decreases the value of the item but would be more than happy with such items in my collection. Cheers Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 25 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2012 Hi John, I can understand how some medals may of got through the stamping process with small imperfections, but surely, once the names etc were stamped on the edges someone then had to box them for shipping and something this obvious would of shown up? Having been a press toolmaker for some 32yrs now, I am probably guilty of occaisionally allowing the odd poor product to pass unnoticed but not to the point where you could not read the name(in this case initials)of the recipient? It would be a shame to learn that it was a common occurance. Regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipperary Posted 25 March , 2012 Share Posted 25 March , 2012 I suppose there is always "The One" that slips through final inspection also you are dependent on how conscientious an operator is.john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 25 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2012 G'day Sean, I've seen to many to say that it wasn't common and it can make research difficult as you have pointed out. I've found in most situations that it decreases the value of the item but would be more than happy with such items in my collection. Cheers Clarke G'day Clarke, my sentiments exactly. The medal has no personal value to me, it was passed on to me along with some other items, but its value still lies in how it was won. Its sad to hear that it seems to be a common occurance as you say, as personally I would be rather put out if it was stamped on a swimming medal I had won let alone a war medal! Regards Sean I suppose there is always "The One" that slips through final inspection also you are dependent on how conscientious an operator is.john True, sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 25 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2012 Not sure that you will see this properly, but here's the offending detail. Thats meant to be J.T. To be fair, now that you know it, it looks obvious, but anyone that looked at it thought it was an O and possibly an I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 Not sure that you will see this properly, but here's the offending detail. Thats meant to be J.T. To be fair, now that you know it, it looks obvious, but anyone that looked at it thought it was an O and possibly an I Coin flans were struck in a collar and I suspect that these medal flans were struck in exactly the same way. The machinery is a rapid action press. The flans are automatically fed into the press the flans sitting in the collar with one of the dies sitting below it. The upper die comes down with pressure thereby the obverse and reverse image are struck at the same time. The collar stops the flan spreading and aids the ejecting of the pressed medal ready for the next one. If the collar is not quite in the proper position or has split the medal will have the fault as shown in the photograph. I have quite a few coins with the same striking fault. If the faulty medal flan was not noticed at this or the "impressing of name" stage I guess that it would be issued as seen in the photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 I've seen light stamping and completely wrong initials or names spelt incorrectly but never seen a defect like that before, that isn't usual and I would challenge anyone who says it is to show us another one or half dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 This is a most odd defect and certainly unlike anything which I have ever seen on a V.M., it almost looks like someone has tried to add a rim of new metal onto the existing rim? Have you checked the diameter of the medal? to see if it is equal all the way round, you may be able to borrow a gauge for this--some collectors and dealers do have these. I could be mistaken, but I feel almost certain that this medal would have been thrown in the scrap-bin either prior to or after naming, with a defect of this proportion!! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 Another thought, what is the rim like near the suspension lug for the ring? This lug must have been fitted after the medal disc was struck and the defect would have been noticed at this stage, it is not conceivable that the operator could have missed this, surely!!? Can you photograph the area around the suspension lug? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 26 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2012 I certainly can! The damaged edge is nowhere near as prominant, but as you can see, the line continues all the way around the medal. I must admit, I was not expecting it to be a common fault, but as others have mentioned, it does not seem to be a rarity. If that is the case, it must of been bad enough for a man to recieve a damaged medal, but even worse for those who were presented with such a faulty stamping to a lost son/husband/brother etc. Regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 Hi Sean, I think that you need to take a serious look at the diameter of this medal, which should be 1.42". The boss through which the loop passes does not look right because the hole appears to be offset, ie. not central and appears to have been drilled through later, it also appears smaller in diameter to the normal size hole through which the ring passes!! This is not like any of the ones(many) which I have in my collection and unlike any which I have ever seen. I strongly suspect that this could be an Indian contemporarily cast copy, either made for a soldier who had lost his medal post 1920 or just a plain copy.!! If it is a cast copy? then it will, by definition, be smaller in diameter than the original 1.42", and almost certainly not perfectly round. I would be most interested to hear how you go on with this. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 26 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2012 How strange, it actually crossed my mind at some point that it could be cast as opposed to stamped. My verniers are in the garage, will check tomorrow and get back to you, regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarke Posted 27 March , 2012 Share Posted 27 March , 2012 Have just come back to this post and even though I said before that mis-stamped medals where common I would have to say after viewing photos that it is something that I haven't seen before either. It's a lot worse than I imagined. The mis stamped medals that I have seen still had a level of control and the mis stamped refers to the naming/ numbers (I don't think I read your posting that well) . I really think this is a recast. I too believe this medal is a casting. For me the impressing of the man's initials sends off a lot of warning bells. They seem to be half covered by the material of the medal? The medal would have been made first and then named where this one seems to show that the casting has covered some of the naming that in this case was there beforehand on the original medal. Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 27 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2012 Thanks Clarke, i must admit, there was always something odd about this one. Just looking at it, it did'nt look right, something about the colour of it. Being a freebie, it has just hung around in a cupboard. Just put it up against one of my genuine medals and its glaringly obvoius. I had no idea these could be ordered with names stamped, as Robert(old owl)mentioned. I just presumed that if you needed replacements, they would be blank, unnamed copies. Can anyone enlighten us as to the history of these re-casts? Regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 27 March , 2012 Share Posted 27 March , 2012 Hi Sean, In the Indian bazaars, I believe that it was possible to have almost anything replicated in the military medal or badge line and this is why cast copies of badges are quite commonly found. The quality of the workmanship varied and I suppose that the higher the price you paid, then the better the copy. I suspect that very few of these copies would fool anyone into thinking that they were originals but then they were not made for that reason. If your medal is such a copy? then it is easy to see that it would not fool anyone into believing that it was the original medal, but then of course it would not have been made for that reason, unlike today, when many far more sophisticated copies are manufactured with this aim, I believe, in mind. I dare say that it may still be possible to have such copies made in India, although like everywhere else these skills will be fast disappearing. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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