Full Dress Spats - RSF, HLI and KOSB

[Lachlan]

Dear All

Did the RSF, HLI or KOSB wear white spats under their trews with full-dress prior to WW1 or was a post-war addition ?

I know that the Royal Scots and Cameronians have never worn spats, the RSF's I am not sure about, but the HLI and KOSB have worn them in the 20th Century but I'm not sure when. The RHF (1959 amalgamation of RSF and HLI) wore them until 2006.

[FROGSMILE]

Dear All

Did the RSF, HLI or KOSB wear white spats under their trews with full-dress prior to WW1 or was a post-war addition ?

I know that the Royal Scots and Cameronians have never worn spats, the RSF's I am not sure about, but the HLI and KOSB have worn them in the 20th Century but I'm not sure when. The RHF (1959 amalgamation of RSF and HLI) wore them until 2006.

Lowland regiments did not wear spats with the Scarlet tunics that were part of the pre-1914 full dress. They were a later addition to dress up the more drab form (Archer Green) of ceremonial dress adopted from the 1953 Coronation onwards. That applies also to the Cameronians, who before WW1, had not worn spats with trews.

[Lachlan]

Lowland regiments did not wear spats with the Scarlet tunics that were part of the pre-1914 full dress. They were a later addition to dress up the more drab form (Archer Green) of ceremonial dress adopted from the 1953 Coronation onwards. That applies also to the Cameronians, who before WW1, had not worn spats with trews.

Thanks. That also makes me curious, as the photos below are of the Cameronians in the 1960's. In the upper photo, neither the O.R. in No 2 dress is wearing spats, nor the Sergeant-Major and officers in No 1 dress. However, the drummer is wearing white spats.

The photo of the Pipe-band in Hanover St shows all band members, including Bugle-Major and the buglers/drummers, all wearing spats.

Apologies - I'm getting a wee bit off-topic.

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks. That also makes me curious, as the photos below are of the Cameronians in the 1960's. In the upper photo, neither the O.R. in No 2 dress is wearing spats, nor the Sergeant-Major and officers in No 1 dress. However, the drummer is wearing white spats.

The photo of the Pipe-band in Hanover St shows all band members, including Bugle-Major and the buglers/drummers, all wearing spats.

Apologies - I'm getting a wee bit off-topic.

Yes, the band and pipers wore spats, along with the rest of the Lowland Brigade, from around the period of the Queen's Coronation in 1953. The rest of the regiment did not. From memory, I don't think that the Buglers did either, just pipers and bandsmen.

[FROGSMILE]

Lachlan, this link (if you scroll down) gives a good indication of who wore spats and who did not: http://www.uniformsotw.com/products/cd35.htm

[Lachlan]

Lachlan, this link (if you scroll down) gives a good indication of who wore spats and who did not: http://www.uniformso...oducts/cd35.htm

Thanks for that !

[gordon92]

Two HLI examples from my archives:

Left, 1914 in full dress - no spats.

Right, a CSM from 1937 in SD with spats.

[FROGSMILE]

Two HLI examples from my archives:

Left, 1914 in full dress - no spats.

Right, a CSM from 1937 in SD with spats.

Thank you for posting that gordon92, it is interesting to see that spats had started to be worn as early as 1937. I knew it was for a Coronation (in order to dress up what were considered overly drab uniforms after the demise of full dress) but it was the George VI Coronation rather than Elizabeth II.

[gordon92]

Thank you for posting that gordon92, it is interesting to see that spats had started to be worn as early as 1937. I knew it was for a Coronation (in order to dress up what were considered drab uniforms after trhe demise of full dress) but it was the George VI Coronation rather than Elizabeth II.

Also for KOSB:

Left, 1914 no spats.

Right, 1959 President Eisenhower visiting Queen probably at Balmoral with spats.

I do not have anything inter-war for the KOSB as my interests are mostly with the Highland regiments.

[ATNOMIS]

Two HLI examples from my archives:

Left, 1914 in full dress - no spats.

Right, a CSM from 1937 in SD with spats.

WO looks amazing. Fantastic picture WW1 medals. Is the 4th LS&GC?

[FROGSMILE]

Two HLI examples from my archives:

Left, 1914 in full dress - no spats.

Right, a CSM from 1937 in SD with spats.

I have just learned that the HLI Pipes and Bugles adopted spats as early as 1926, apparently for two reasons, to dress up the drab interwar SD and because they were seen as a distictive mark of Highland identity in a uniform that otherwise bore a lot of Lowland features. It is not clear if the rest of the regiment also did so as early as that but clearly they had done so by 1937.

For the OP then, it seems that spats began to be worn by regiments that had not hitherto worn them during the interwar years and specifically for the King George VI Coronation in 1937.

[gordon92]

I have just learned that the HLI Pipes and Bugles adopted spats as early as 1926, apparently for two reasons, to dress up the drab interwar SD and because they were seen as a distictive mark of Highland identity in a uniform that otherwise bore a lot of Lowland features. It is not clear if the rest of the regiment also did so as early as that but clearly they had done so by 1937.

For the OP then, it seems that spats began to be worn by regiments that had not hitherto worn them during the interwar years and specifically for the King George VI Coronation in 1937.

Pursuant to above, photo below is of Bugle Major Arthur Bendy of 1st HLI taken in 1930. It is not a very good image as it was scanned from a book. The feather plume was only worn by the bugle major of the 1st Bn. The 2nd Bn bugle major wore the feather bonnet as inherited from the 74th Highlanders.

[FROGSMILE]

Pursuant to above, photo below is of Bugle Major Arthur Bendy of 1st HLI taken in 1930. It is not a very good image as it was scanned from a book. The feather plume was only worn by the bugle major of the 1st Bn. The 2nd Bn bugle major wore the feather bonnet as inherited from the 74th Highlanders.

Yes, and for the same reason the 1st Battalion used the short parade cane and the 2nd Battalion a staff, or mace. Fascinating stuff and just goes to show that there is generally a reason and historical thread behind such dress idiosyncracies. I take it we have the same book - "Pipe Music of the Scottish Regiments"?

[gordon92]

Yes, and for the same reason the 1st Battalion used the short parade cane and the 2nd Battalion a staff, or mace. Fascinating stuff and just goes to show that there is generally a reason and historical thread behind such dress idiosyncracies. I take it we have the same book - "Pipe Music of the Scottish Regiments"?

Yes, the image of Arthur Bendy is from Music of the Scottish Regiments by David Murray.

[FROGSMILE]

Yes, the image of Arthur Bendy is from Music of the Scottish Regiments by David Murray.

Yes of course, not just "Pipes". A most illuminating book.