Arncliffe Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Going through the effects of an elderly relative I've come across a postcard, the printed back is all in French, and the photograph shows a uniformed soldier who is not only unknown to our family (!) but whose regiment I cannot identify. The collar badge is a letter "C" above a bar over the number "20" and the cap badge has no detail in the photo but the top edge is in the shape of a crown or, possibly, a leaf? To add to the mystery, the man appears to be wearing an armband above his left elbow - can't see what the shoulder flashes are though. The card has a hand-written message "Best Wishes from France, Frank L Prior" - but that means nothing to our family either! Who was Frank and in which regiment did he serve? All help gratefully acknowledged by a very curious family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Arncliffe, Welcome to the Forum. Could be Canadian? The cap badge has the look of the general C.E.F. badge--can you do a close up? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Could it be the Canadian 20th Btn (1st Central Ontario) ? Regards, Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Holly, Looks like you may have struck gold here--excellent Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 I have just checked Canadian Military records and there are two Frank Priors and one F.Prior, but no Frank L.Prior or F.L.Prior. I suppose that he could be one of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 I have just checked Canadian Military records and there are two Frank Priors and one F.Prior, but no Frank L.Prior or F.L.Prior. I suppose that he could be one of these? Hi Robert I have a 172039 Frank Louis Prior, 83rd Overseas Btn CEF. Looks like he originated in Maldon Essex, well at least his next of kin lived there, his mother Lewis? Prior. He joined up in Toronto. Regards Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 The cloth patches on the upper arms (just visible) are of a size to indicate a Canadian, too. It would (according to the excellent CEF Study Group website, have been a blue rectangle with a green triangle on the top edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Robert I have a 172039 Frank Louis Prior, 83rd Overseas Btn CEF. Looks like he originated in Maldon Essex, well at least his next of kin lived there, his mother Lewis? Prior. He joined up in Toronto. Regards Holly Hi Holly, I must have missed him somehow!! but he would seem to be the man in question. Have you read his papers? Perhaps Arncliffe will be back soon to confirm if any of these details fit in with his/her family history. Regards, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 The cloth patches on the upper arms (just visible) are of a size to indicate a Canadian, too. It would (according to the excellent CEF Study Group website, have been a blue rectangle with a green triangle on the top edge. Thanks Steven, it looks like we are on the right path with this one then-- "every little bit helps" as they say!! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Holly, I must have missed him somehow!! but he would seem to be the man in question. Have you read his papers? Perhaps Arncliffe will be back soon to confirm if any of these details fit in with his/her family history. Regards, Robert Hi Robert, I have his attestation paper. He enlisted in Toronto in August 1915 when he was 18 (b. 16th March 1897). It states he was born in Maldon, Essex, UK. He sailed for Europe as a L/C with the 20th Btn COR. He returned to Canada in May 1919 aboard the Caronia and married in June 1921 to Mabel Helen Louise Penstone. His Mother was Caroline Howard and his father Louis Prior. Frank died on 16th July 1973 in Saanich, Victoria B.C. aged 76. I also found a website with their war diaries. I hope Arncliffe comes back! Kind regards, Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Holly, Great stuff!! I think that is 'Game, Set and Match'-- without a shadow of a doubt All we need now is Arncliffe!! Regards, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Hi Holly, Great stuff!! I think that is 'Game, Set and Match'-- without a shadow of a doubt All we need now is Arncliffe!! Regards, Robert The cherry on the top would be if arncliffe recognised something from the information which makes sense Still, I enjoyed the search and chat with you. G'night, Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 24 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2012 Hi Robert, I have his attestation paper. He enlisted in Toronto in August 1915 when he was 18 (b. 16th March 1897). It states he was born in Maldon, Essex, UK. He sailed for Europe as a L/C with the 20th Btn COR. He returned to Canada in May 1919 aboard the Caronia and married in June 1921 to Mabel Helen Louise Penstone. His Mother was Caroline Howard and his father Louis Prior. Frank died on 16th July 1973 in Saanich, Victoria B.C. aged 76. I also found a website with their war diaries. I hope Arncliffe comes back! Kind regards, Holly I hope I'm doing this right - it's my first reply! I'm deeply grateful to Holly and everyone for their sleuthing on our behalf - you must be correct with your findings as it fits well with our family (sort of). Our family come from Essex, with addresses in Braintree, Paglesham and Southend - all of which are within 50 miles of Maldon! I still have no idea who Frank was i relation to our family - perhaps just a friend of my female relative who had the picture? Now that I am sure we have his actual family details I will check with family history to see if there is a closer connection. Many, many thanks for such a speedy and comprehensive reply - very impressive! Kind regards and thanks, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 24 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2012 Just one question from this novice - what is the connection between the 83rd Overseas Btn CEF and the 20th Btn COR? Did the 20th form part of the 83rd? And does CEF = Canadian Expeditionary Force and COR = Canadian Ontario Regiment? Am discussing Frank's family history with my relatives - will let you know if we establish the link. Again, very many thanks - I can't believe that in less than four hours I have an identification including family names and date of death - incredible! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 24 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2012 And yet another remarkable coincidence................ Frank died at Saanich, Victoria B.C. - my wife and I are booked in June to visit Victoria B.C. where my cousin now lives, having emigrated from Felsted, Essex - about 20 miles from Frank's birthplace at Maldon, Essex! I wonder if I shall have the opportunity to find any surviving relatives of Frank, or his burial site while we are there? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 I hope I'm doing this right - it's my first reply! I'm deeply grateful to Holly and everyone for their sleuthing on our behalf - you must be correct with your findings as it fits well with our family (sort of). Our family come from Essex, with addresses in Braintree, Paglesham and Southend - all of which are within 50 miles of Maldon! I still have no idea who Frank was i relation to our family - perhaps just a friend of my female relative who had the picture? Now that I am sure we have his actual family details I will check with family history to see if there is a closer connection. Many, many thanks for such a speedy and comprehensive reply - very impressive! Kind regards and thanks, Nigel Hi Nigel Happy to have helped. I had hoped that Essex was the connection. Keep us informed if you find further connections I found the 1901 census which had Louis, Caroline and 4 year old Frank living at 137 High Street, Maldon. Caroline died in 1908 aged only 39 and Louis and young Frank emigrated to Canada in 1910 aboard the Victorian sailing from Liverpool and disembarking in Quebec and living in Toronto. Louis married again, presumably in Canada. Louis went back to England to visit relatives. He had a brother called Ernie Prior in Maldon and a sister Myrtle Bletchley (that will be her married name). Frank as we know joined up during WW1. Hope that helps. Regards Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 Just one question from this novice - what is the connection between the 83rd Overseas Btn CEF and the 20th Btn COR? Did the 20th form part of the 83rd? And does CEF = Canadian Expeditionary Force and COR = Canadian Ontario Regiment? Am discussing Frank's family history with my relatives - will let you know if we establish the link. Again, very many thanks - I can't believe that in less than four hours I have an identification including family names and date of death - incredible! Nigel Hi Nigel I'm new to WW1 research so I don't have the experienced knowledge about battalions and regiments that many of the others here do so I don't know if the 20th Btn formed part of the 83rd. Yes, CEF is Canadian Expeditionary Force and COR is Central Ontario Regiment. Regards Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 (edited) And yet another remarkable coincidence................ Frank died at Saanich, Victoria B.C. - my wife and I are booked in June to visit Victoria B.C. where my cousin now lives, having emigrated from Felsted, Essex - about 20 miles from Frank's birthplace at Maldon, Essex! I wonder if I shall have the opportunity to find any surviving relatives of Frank, or his burial site while we are there? Nigel Wow, I wonder if you will get to see his grave? That would be great. There must be a link between your cousin and Frank's family surely? Frank's death registration no. is 1973-09-010078, the BCA number (British Columbia Archives? ) is B13326 and the GSU number (no idea what that is) is 2050139. If you contact the archive people before you go they should be able to tell you where is grave is. Good luck! Regards Holly P.S. There are loads of Priors living in Victoria, BC close to Saanich with telephone numbers Edited 24 March , 2012 by gwendraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 24 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2012 That's fantastic Holly - thank you so much. I'm so impressed with the amount of detail that you have provided - you must have spent a long time on my behalf and for that I am most grateful. Based on the success of this initial post, for what I thought was going to be an impossible task, I am encouraged to put up another post, this time regarding someone much closer to me - my grandfather who as a marine in the RMLI aboard the P.S. (later H.M.S.) Iris, took part in the raid on Zeebrugge on April 23rd 1918. Hopefully I will find more about Grandad's service history and his hospitalisation afer being wounded in the raid. Fingers crossed that I find someone as knowledgeable as you. Thanks again, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwendraith Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 That's fantastic Holly - thank you so much. I'm so impressed with the amount of detail that you have provided - you must have spent a long time on my behalf and for that I am most grateful. Based on the success of this initial post, for what I thought was going to be an impossible task, I am encouraged to put up another post, this time regarding someone much closer to me - my grandfather who as a marine in the RMLI aboard the P.S. (later H.M.S.) Iris, took part in the raid on Zeebrugge on April 23rd 1918. Hopefully I will find more about Grandad's service history and his hospitalisation afer being wounded in the raid. Fingers crossed that I find someone as knowledgeable as you. Thanks again, Nigel Thanks Nigel. It didn't take me long (I knew where to look!). Good luck with the research on your Grandfather. My expertise is in family research but there are people here on this forum who have so much knowledge about all things WW1 that I'm certain you will have answers soon Of course if I can help I will. I started to research one of my grandfather's young brothers (twins) only about 3 months ago. One I knew when I was a very small girl but I didn't even know the name of the other and that got me thinking. Then I found his military records and I discovered he'd been killed in action aged 19, in Combles, the Somme in 1916. I now have a huge passion for WW1 history and I am going to visit great uncle Alex's grave in June in the Combles Cemetery Extension The place where he was killed is only a few hundred yards from the B&B where I will be staying and I will walk the battlegrounds in the area. I know it's going to be very emotional and I wish my granddad was still alive to know that I have 'found' Alex and I am going to see him. Regards, Holly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 The 83Bn CEF supplied re-enforcement drafts to the front line 20Bn basic explanation of the CEF battalion system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_infantry_battalions_in_the_Canadian_Expeditionary_Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 25 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2012 The 83Bn CEF supplied re-enforcement drafts to the front line 20Bn basic explanation of the CEF battalion system: http://en.wikipedia....ditionary_Force Very many thanks. Have looked at the Wiki page and its supporting websites - hadn't realised such comprehensive info would still be available (battle orders etc). Cheers. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 25 March , 2012 Share Posted 25 March , 2012 Hi Nigel Happy to have helped. I had hoped that Essex was the connection. Keep us informed if you find further connections I found the 1901 census which had Louis, Caroline and 4 year old Frank living at 137 High Street, Maldon. Caroline died in 1908 aged only 39 and Louis and young Frank emigrated to Canada in 1910 aboard the Victorian sailing from Liverpool and disembarking in Quebec and living in Toronto. Louis married again, presumably in Canada. Louis went back to England to visit relatives. He had a brother called Ernie Prior in Maldon and a sister Myrtle Bletchley (that will be her married name). Frank as we know joined up during WW1. Hope that helps. Regards Holly The Prior's were indeed at 137 High street and were picture frame makers (Louis headed the business in 1902). 137 now an Indian takeaway! Regards. SPN Maldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arncliffe Posted 25 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2012 The Prior's were indeed at 137 High street and were picture frame makers (Louis headed the business in 1902). 137 now an Indian takeaway! Regards. SPN Maldon Many thanks for that - I'll check it out myself when next in Maldon as I'm only in Southend. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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