pompeyrodney Posted 23 August , 2004 Share Posted 23 August , 2004 Hi All Many thanks for such an interesting thread. I have learnt a lot through reading the various posts. I personally served 22 years in the "current" Royal Navy, leaving in 2000 as a Chief Petty Officer Artificer in the mechanical engineering specialisation. When I saw the original photo as posted by Jim, I was convinced I was looking at a commisioned officer, how wrong I was !. It illustrates to me how much the uniform has changed over the many passing years. The fore and aft hat was interesting as I thought that went out in the time of Nelson, wrong again. Thanks everyone for all your input. Cheers Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 23 August , 2004 Share Posted 23 August , 2004 Hooray, another member from the cream of the Royal Navy Mick (ex POMEA (EL)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Ok then Ive read this thread with interest. My great grandfather has PO (petty officer) inscribed on his medals and I also have the belt as in your photographs without any gold etc. Here he is after the war around 1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 9 September , 2004 Share Posted 9 September , 2004 Hi Drake, Your man is wearing the uniform of a Royal Naval Chief Petty Officer, & it appears as if it is of immediate post war period but its very hard to make out the cap badge in the photo. These were changed in 1920, CPO's after this time went to another cap badge from the PO's. CPO's wore their rate badges on their lapels of their tunics, I cannot make out any in this photo, as its to dark to discern them. Altho, saying that I have a photo of a Chief Gunners Mate (with his medals) & in the photo he does not wear his rate badges on his lapels. If he was a PO he would be wearing the Good Conduct badges & PO insignia on his left sleeve. He must have been a PO during the war & as such had his medals named as a PO, but was promoted to CPO after his active service. I cannot explain the belt. Only Warrant & Commissioned Naval officers wore the black sword belt. The only rating permitted to wear an officer's sword belt & carry an officers sword was the Master At Arms. I dont know why his SR has not survived - the survival rate of later Victorian to post WWI RN records is virtually 100%. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Maclean Posted 7 October , 2004 Share Posted 7 October , 2004 That is one of the finest photographs of a Royal Navy Warrant Officer that I have seen. If you look carefully at the photograph you will see that he does not wear an officers sword rather he wears a WO's sword. The difference is in the pommel, an officers sword has a lion with the guard coming out of it's mouth. A warrant officers sword was as shown and had a black handgrip. I believe this was the sword the chief of police would wear(not in the least prejudiced against the most worthless branch of the Navy) For interest here's a pic of WOs just post WW1 on the Glasgow, shows WO of the executive branch with more than ten years seniority, another with no curl shows more than ten years seniority in the civil branches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Jim is correct in his description of the sword worn by Naval Warrant Officers. I attach a scan of the RN Dress Regs showing the Warrant Officer's sword on the left & the Commissioned officer's sword on the right. The main difference is in the grip colour & the pommell. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.r.f Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 JIM I live in KINGSWOOD BRISTOL. Not supprisingly the photographers no longer exists.Can you tell us any more about this sailor?I might be able to find out more about him. CHEERS. JOHN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 13 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2004 John You'll know from my earlier posts that the very smart gent at the start of this thread in what we now know to be the ceremonial uniform of a RN Warrant Officer is believed to be Arthur Frank Shackleton. What I know about AFS so far is that he was born 1887/88 in Otley, Yorks, the second son of Thomas Pickles Shackleton and Mary Jane (nee Lowe), both Yorkshire folk. The family had moved to Kingswood, Bristol by 1891, and in 1901 were living at Black Horse Road, and 13 year old AFS was an apprentice boot maker. His Bible in which the photo was found contains the info that he was an AB on HMS Suffolk 1906-1908, and I've found that she was a Monmouth class armoured cruiser launched 1903, scrapped 1920 - but there at the moment his story ends. The Shackletons though remained in Kingswood and a part of the family (I think AFS's younger brother Charles C - Cyril) ran a firm of electricians and electrical retailers at Regent St, Kingswood, at least until the 1960s. If you can add anything from your local knowledge, I'd be most grateful. All the best, Jim Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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