mortimer Posted 22 March , 2012 Share Posted 22 March , 2012 Possibly a clue - Min 11.NW/7/4805 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 22 March , 2012 Share Posted 22 March , 2012 As a cryptic crossword aficionado I'll have a bash at this one. :-) Are you saying there is no 15 Star showing on the MIC or that he wasn't entitled to one. If the former then there are quite a few on stand alone cards with many missing. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 22 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2012 As a cryptic crossword aficionado I'll have a bash at this one. :-) Are you saying there is no 15 Star showing on the MIC or that he wasn't entitled to one. If the former then there are quite a few on stand alone cards with many missing. Hywyn Sorry for being obtuse, card says 'not entitled to star' but he entered 15/12/15!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipperary Posted 22 March , 2012 Share Posted 22 March , 2012 Hi,did he qualify for The Territorial Force War Medal? Served perhaps Gibralter and then onto France by the date of entry.john The Territorial Force War Medal, 1914-1920 This is the least commonly issued medal. It was insituted in 1920 and only applicable to men or women who had served in a unit of the Territorial Force. To qualify, the soldier must have completed four years or more service prior to 4 August 1914, and if not still serving must have rejoined by 30 September 1914; they must have agreed to serve overseas by the same date; they must have served overseas at some point up to and including 11 November 1918; and they must not have otherwise qualified for a 1914 or 1914-15 Star. Only 33,944 of this medal was issued, to members of the TF and the TF Nursing Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 22 March , 2012 Share Posted 22 March , 2012 Could it have been a disciplinary or under-age issue? Perhaps he had to re-enlist in the field after 1/1/1916? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 23 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Sorry, it's a confirmed no to both of the above. This mature officer was DSO MC MID & pair KIA 1924 Nigeria...I suspect it was sour grapes, he wore one anyway in uniform! Remember the English Yeomanry unit who landed in Egypt 31/12/15 & fought tooth & nail until the 1960's to no avail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulsterlad2 Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 I'm not sure that just being in theatre was enough to qualify for the Star. I believe that a person also had to actually serve on the establishment of a unit in the theatre of war. Is it possible that your man, although in theatre, wasn't sent to a unit until 01/01/1916 at the earliest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 23 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2012 No sight of 'papers' yet but they are en route, could be, but I understand entry was enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 You might check his papers closely when they arrive to see if he was relieved of command or had some other negative aspect to his service overseas. I have the medals to an officer who went to France in February 1915 and commanded an RFA battery there for almost a year. He was then sent to Egypt and a month after taking command of a battery there he was relieved of his command and sent home because of lack of ability to command men. His MIC indicates he is not eligible for the 1914-15 Star and he received the TFWM instead. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old joe Posted 24 March , 2012 Share Posted 24 March , 2012 Forgive me for hijacking this thread but I have a question about a photo of Sapper John French MC MM. His diary entries are recorded on the excellent Tunnellers Memorial website concerning the events leading to the posthumous award of a VC to William Hackett VC. He sailed for France on Dec. 31st, 1915. If he had disembarked in France on the same day would he have qualified for the 14-15 Star? In this photo he appears to be wearing a ribbon for the 1914-15 Star but only a WM/VM pair are displayed. I wonder if he did indeed qualify for the Star or if he thought he was and added it to his ribbon bar at least. I'm just curious but I wonder how common it was for men to 'self award' the Star medal because they felt they had met the criteria for it. Again, sorry if I have taken this thread off track. Regards, Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 26 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2012 The Yeomany Regt. I mentioned didn't campaign for nearly 50 years without good reason. The DSO/MC guy Im researching wore a '15 Star despite the Medal office. Forgive me for hijacking this thread but I have a question about a photo of Sapper John French MC MM. His diary entries are recorded on the excellent Tunnellers Memorial website concerning the events leading to the posthumous award of a VC to William Hackett VC. He sailed for France on Dec. 31st, 1915. If he had disembarked in France on the same day would he have qualified for the 14-15 Star? In this photo he appears to be wearing a ribbon for the 1914-15 Star but only a WM/VM pair are displayed. I wonder if he did indeed qualify for the Star or if he thought he was and added it to his ribbon bar at least. I'm just curious but I wonder how common it was for men to 'self award' the Star medal because they felt they had met the criteria for it. Again, sorry if I have taken this thread off track. Regards, Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 26 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2012 I forgot to mention the ebay 'pair' recently for a Guardsman who got to France 11/11/18. Many theatres required only one day. I despair of the nonscence which has crept in of late re certain no's of days 'in country' etc etc The Yeomany Regt. I mentioned didn't campaign for nearly 50 years without good reason. The DSO/MC guy Im researching wore a '15 Star despite the Medal office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old joe Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 The Yeomany Regt. I mentioned didn't campaign for nearly 50 years without good reason. The DSO/MC guy Im researching wore a '15 Star despite the Medal office. I can well understand their frustration. Thanks for your comments. Regards, Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulsterlad2 Posted 26 March , 2012 Share Posted 26 March , 2012 This is where I'd initially read the thing about being on the establishment of a unit for Star qualification. http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/ww1_1914_15_star_award.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimer Posted 1 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2012 This guys 'papers' are spotless, no hint of legitimate disallowance! This is where I'd initially read the thing about being on the establishment of a unit for Star qualification. http://www.northeast..._star_award.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momsirish Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 This is where I'd initially read the thing about being on the establishment of a unit for Star qualification. http://www.northeast..._star_award.htm Ulsterlad2; Thank you for posting the link to the 1919 "Entitlement as per Army Order 20 of 1919 and later amendments." In a letter I received last month from the Ministry of Defense Medal Office regarding the " 1914-1915 STAR" medals, it states that " After the 1914-1918 War, all campaign awards were automatically issued by Registersd Post to the medal earner, or if deceased to the Next Of Kin. These awards were then entered on the Medal Rolls and Medal Card, which were not compiled until issue of the medals had been completed." "The 1914 Star and the 1914-1915 Star are on seperate Medal Rolls which are held at the National Archives." If the soldiers I was researching were entitled to either of the Stars it would be listed on the Medal Rollo and the Medal Card. Both the soldiers I was researching do not have the Star medals listed on their medal roll or medal cards. One was KIA in Belgium in May of 1915. The other served at Gallipoli in August 1915, and DOW in France in September 1918. As far as I know neither of these soldiers have service records surviving in the archives. Prior to this I had thought I read somewhere that if a soldier was entitled to the medal and did not receive it, he or his NOK had to apply for it? Possibly quite a few lads have not been given their earned awards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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