Khaki Posted 12 March , 2012 Share Posted 12 March , 2012 What was the reason behind the wartime change in production to MkVI, they both fire the same ammo apart from the birds head grip on the MkV they are essentially the same revolver, it can't have been ease of manufacture. I actually prefer the MkV with the smaller grip and normally shorter barrel. So what was behind it all. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 13 March , 2012 Share Posted 13 March , 2012 What was the reason behind the wartime change in production to MkVI, khaki khaki, I have checked both Dowell's " The Webley Story " and Bruce & Reinhart's " Webley Revolver " and neither reference book gives any official reason for the change from the Mark V to the Mark V1 Webley Service Revolver. The only apparent reason quoted, was that the new shape of the Mark V1 grip, offered a much better hand grip as a consequence. Page 206 of Bruce & Reinhart's book dealing with the introduction of the Mark V1, reads :- " This model was the last and probably the best known of all the .455" Service Revolvers... approved on 24 May 1915.. The latest model featured a new 6" barrel fitted with a removable blade foresight and at 38.5 ounces, was 3 ounces heavier than the Mark V. The same reliable action, barrel rifling and general design followed that of earlier service revolvers with the single exception of the stock. This deviated from the regular " Birdshead " shape to a style previously used on the commercial W.S. models, and offered a much better hand grip as a consequence. Alterations to the frame had also made it necessary for different stockplates to be fitted...A modified barrel catch, similar to that used on later versions of both the W.S. and Wilkinson models, was also used on the Mark V1 revolver. This component had large axis bosses on the inner face to improve security and operation of the catch. Except for the items mentioned, components for the Mark V1 were common to those of the Mark V. " At the start of WW1, an open contract was placed with Webley and Scott for a weekly delivery of 2500 Mark V1 revolvers, with an estimated total wartime production of 280,000 Mark V1 revolvers. Regards, Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 13 March , 2012 Share Posted 13 March , 2012 The longer sighting base of the Mk.VI would potentially improve accuracy, the longer barrel would reduce flash and muzzle blast, and might give a few more fps velocity. The birdshead grip on the Mk.V, and the absence of any purchase for the web of the thumb, would aggravate rearward rotation in recoil as compared to the later grip shape of the Mk.VI. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 13 March , 2012 Share Posted 13 March , 2012 There is nothing in the List of Changes (LoC 17319, May 1915) to suggest a reason and in fact the wording in Bruce and Reinhart is virtually a direct copy of the LoC. I don't recall seeing anything in the Minutes of the Munitions Design Committee either (The Small Arms Committee having been dissolved on the outbreak of war) but will chack both those and any OB Procs. It may well have been to do with better control of the recoil as Mik suggests, especially with the large numbers of men needing to be trained in the use of the pistol, cavalry, machine gunners etc. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 13 March , 2012 Share Posted 13 March , 2012 The main change was the grip design, really just a modernisation, though there were some minor changes to the barrel latch screws which aren't evident until you take them out. The MkV must have been just about the last birdfoot grip revolver anybody made, anywhere. (I regret saying that already ! ) Barrel length wasn't a consideration, as MkV;s were made with different barrel lengths - my search at Glasgow University mentioned in another thread involved a 7 inch (or was it 7 1/2 ? - some years back now) barrelled Mk V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 13 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2012 The main change was the grip design, really just a modernisation, Possibly there had been complaints about the grips, as that is the most significant change, I think from memory that the more pronounced style grip of the MkVI rides higher in the holster, we used to have a saying,"make sure the gun is where your hand expects it to be", used for the positioning of the holster, however if the 'inverted shape of the other marks sit lower and do not rise to meet the hand then possible fumbling with fatal results could occur. I don't know about the recoil being an issue for the web of the hand being significant enough to warrant a design and manufacturing change during the war although it would have made for more comfortable shooting. If that was a factor then they probably could have returned to the MkI style grip. The other possibility was that if Webley had been using the same machinery since the MkI, then the machinery may have been at the end of it's life. I know that the MkVI entered service in 1915 but the design and tooling up must have occurred much earlier. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese williams Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 MikB has the main reason. A round grip lets the pistol roll in the hand under recoil (the muzzle raises and the grip moves down). This helps reduce felt recoil but requires the shooter to establish a new grip after each shot. Inconsistency in grip from shot to shot reduces accuracy. The longer barrel provides a longer sight radius which also improves accuracy. The replaceable front sight blade made it possible to adjust the sight again increasing accuracy. From a shooting point of view all the changes to the MkVI made it a more controlable more accurate handgun than the previous marks. For looks I have to admit I prefer the bird's head grips. If I can ever find one of the MkV's that was fitted with a 6 inch barrel I'll pawn the house to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedini Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 Tried to send some pics of my MarkV but unfortunatly the file was to big to upload.It`s really a pain in the ass that things must be so difficult. All the best/Fidde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Foster Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 Try using an outside host, something like photobucket .You can then download large file images, circumnavigating the 100 kb maximum file size resriction on the forum Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedini Posted 1 April , 2012 Share Posted 1 April , 2012 Thanks Chris. Try using an outside host, something like photobucket .You can then download large file images, circumnavigating the 100 kb maximum file size resriction on the forum Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Foster Posted 2 April , 2012 Share Posted 2 April , 2012 Images posted on behalf of Fidde . Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 3 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2012 Nice MkV photograph, can't quite make out the date, my eyes, not the photo, khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedini Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 Nice MkV photograph, can't quite make out the date, my eyes, not the photo, khaki The revolver was made in 1915 and have the serialnumber 170108.I have only shot it once,and it works flawlessly.The military target was made in Sweden in the middle of the Great War and have survived nearly 100 years.It represents a Swedish soldier with his Mauser model 1896 and was used at 300yds for shooting practise. All the best Fidde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 The revolver was made in 1915 and have the serialnumber 170108.I have only shot it once,and it works flawlessly.The military target was made in Sweden in the middle of the Great War and have survived nearly 100 years.It represents a Swedish soldier with his Mauser model 1896 and was used at 300yds for shooting practise. All the best Fidde Why would the Swedes use a picture of a Swedish soldier as a target?! IIRC every other nation used a facsimile of a real or imagined enemy - e.g. we had "Huns", the Huns had "Tommies", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 The revolver was made in 1915 and have the serialnumber 170108.I have only shot it once,and it works flawlessly.The military target was made in Sweden in the middle of the Great War and have survived nearly 100 years.It represents a Swedish soldier with his Mauser model 1896 and was used at 300yds for shooting practise. All the best Fidde No wonder there ain't no .455 holes in it! You should've tried at 30! Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 3 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2012 Why would the Swedes use a picture of a Swedish soldier as a target?! IIRC every other nation used a facsimile of a real or imagined enemy - e.g. we had "Huns", the Huns had "Tommies", etc. I guess everyone else likes the Swedes abba fan khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedini Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 Why would the Swedes use a picture of a Swedish soldier as a target?! IIRC every other nation used a facsimile of a real or imagined enemy - e.g. we had "Huns", the Huns had "Tommies", etc. You have a good point there Thunderbox,l have`nt really thought about it until you mentioned it. All the best Fidde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 3 April , 2012 Share Posted 3 April , 2012 Perhaps Swedish troops are prone to mutiny. These targets would only be issued to loyal troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 April , 2012 Share Posted 4 April , 2012 Images posted on behalf of Fidde . Chris Excellent revolver, I particularly liked the target, must be quite rare. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedini Posted 20 April , 2012 Share Posted 20 April , 2012 Yes yourè right,the target is very rare.It`s as I said made at the time of the great war and was used for rifle training.After what I`ve heard they wore made with a special method "stone printing"don`t ask me what that is.This was a copy from the originals that I have.The size is 1meterX80cm.As a matter of fact I have used one of them when shooting my Webley Mark VI just for that they are from the same period of time manufactured.Unfortunatly I could`nt get hold of any blue target patches here in Sweden.I found a solution though talking with a nice lady at the post office,supplying me with the blue priority patches for airmail.I didn`t tell her what to use them for ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 20 April , 2012 Share Posted 20 April , 2012 Pr5obably printed by lithography I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewebleyman Posted 2 May , 2012 Share Posted 2 May , 2012 What was the reason behind the wartime change in production to MkVI, they both fire the same ammo apart from the birds head grip on the MkV they are essentially the same revolver, it can't have been ease of manufacture. I actually prefer the MkV with the smaller grip and normally shorter barrel. So what was behind it all. khaki From memory I think they altered the extractor mechanism. But if you look at series of service revolvers each new Mk only had small canges/improvements. Afterall the Webley Service revolver , accompanied by the .450 and .455 round was probably the finest and most durable handgun ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewebleyman Posted 2 May , 2012 Share Posted 2 May , 2012 What was the reason behind the wartime change in production to MkVI, they both fire the same ammo apart from the birds head grip on the MkV they are essentially the same revolver, it can't have been ease of manufacture. I actually prefer the MkV with the smaller grip and normally shorter barrel. So what was behind it all. khaki Apologies I am incorrect about the extractor mechanism being different. Essentially , the differences were small, apart from the obvious barrel lengths and change in grip shape. The Mk VI had a different bladesight as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 30 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2012 If earlier marks of Webley, were upgraded/refinished for ww1, what were the upgrades?, as I have mentioned elsewhere I have seen a Mk1 dated 1914 on the frame. They did not seem to use the FTR type of marking as with Enfields. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 30 May , 2012 Share Posted 30 May , 2012 The main upgrade was the fitting of the larger Mark VI cylinder. This entailed filing the frame to give more clearance. There is a List of Changes instruction to armourers to do this and I will look it out later (as I have a far more serious task ahead of me as i am just leaving for the London Pals meeting at the Pineapple!) Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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