Name That Artillery!

[ph0ebus]

Hi all,

Seeking to learn a little more about a cannon I came across today:

A historical photo:

The cannon today:

I suspect it's an American gun, but maybe someone knows better?

Daniel

[spconnolly007]

Yep, it's a cannon!! Daniel, possibly 18 pounder? Sean

[RobL]

Reminds me of a 19th century Armstrong gun, but not aware of them being used in the USA. Definitely pre-WW1 vintage

[Khaki]

Reminds me of a 19th century Armstrong gun, but not aware of them being used in the USA. Definitely pre-WW1 vintage

Hi Daniel,

I agree with RobL, any chance of a photo of the breech end of the piece, we should remember that a display meant to honor WW1 soldiers in a park setting does not necessarily mean that the displayed gun is of the same vintage or even used in the same conflict.

khaki

[Neil Mackenzie]

My thought was a pre-war 12 pounder.

Neil

[RodB]

Odd, considering this is a WWI memorial - no recoil mechanism, hence long before WWI.

[Khaki]

I am guessing that the memorial was done in the 20's and I doubt that there were enough surviving German guns to satisfy every county, city or veterans association amongst the allies that wanted something. Most allied guns were still modern weapons that were still on the 'active list' until they became obsolete.and were retired. The other possibility with the pictured gun is that it was already in place (Span-Am War) and that the plaque is a separate commemoration in a relevant place.

It would be interesting to know what the procedure was for procuring war trophies for public parks, was there a 'shopping list' available issued by the War Department?

khaki

[ph0ebus]

Hi Daniel,

I agree with RobL, any chance of a photo of the breech end of the piece, we should remember that a display meant to honor WW1 soldiers in a park setting does not necessarily mean that the displayed gun is of the same vintage or even used in the same conflict.

khaki

Indeed. The next time I am in the area I will have some photos from various angles.

-Daniel

EDIT: Fount a vintage photo showing the breech end of the cannon online, which will have to do until my next trip out...hope it helps:

Other tidbits I found interesting, if not helpful, about this cannon and memorial:

During the protests to the Vietnam War, this cannon was exorcized by the Elders and Pastor (the Rev. Charles Kellogg) of the South Haven Presbyterian Church, which created considerable controversy in reaction, not unlike the community divisions that were occurring through the country.

and, from another photo description on the same page:

Looking south. South Country Rd. curves to the right; Fire Place Neck Rd. straight ahead. Just visible at left is one of the Miller barns (Br30C). To structure just visible to the right is probably the Brook Store (Br07). The cannon is visible; cannon plaque was erected in 1920. Unknown is whether plaque was erected at same time as cannon was placed.

From:

http://brookhavensouthhaven.org/history/HistoricSitesImages.aspx?InventoryCode=Br06A.1-S

[Khaki]

I try to give the artillery piece a name, its was known as the 'grasshopper' due to the wheel braking system causing the gun to jump back and then forward with recoil. The gun is better identified as 3.2" field gun (rifle) and entered service with US forces in 1885 and served until 1897 some served through the Spanish American War.

khaki

[bob lembke]

I try to give the artillery piece a name, its was known as the 'grasshopper' due to the wheel braking system causing the gun to jump back and then forward with recoil. The gun is better identified as 3.2" field gun (rifle) and entered service with US forces in 1885 and served until 1897 some served through the Spanish American War.

khaki

Although they were at that time of an obsolete design, the German Army still fielded some guns of that pattern in 1914 and 1915, often assigned to lower-grade reserve formations, such as Landwehr Artillerie. Perhaps the most common one was a 9 cm field gun, and some even older patterns, in various calibers. The Germans, and other nations, tended to stock-pile large numbers of obsolete guns at fortresses, for possible use in case of war, and when the war broke out many were used. In mid-1915 there probably were three times as many artillery units as there were in the German Army in August 1914.

So I would wait till someone can actually examine the breech (and perhaps to measure the bore at the muzzle for the caliber) before arriving at a definative answer. Khaki's identification of the type of gun is dead on, I applaud his perception, but just caution that such guns were made and used by many nations. Most of these commemorative guns in the US displays were German. In 1920 I would think that most US guns of this pattern would have been scrapped long before, perhaps in the US WW I scrap drives. The US obtained much of their artillery for their new 1917 units from France and Britain.

Bob Lembke