trajan Posted 1 March , 2012 Share Posted 1 March , 2012 Well, I took S>S's suggestion, and took the oil and brush to my existing mosin nagant (still waiting for the new one with ersatz scabbard to arrive - 25 cm of snow yesterday!). Haven't finished yet but the serial number is clearer (second photo) - but no luck really with the possible DEUTSCHLAND marking on the obverse side - it's too badly pitted but I can just see an 'H' there (first photo). More to the point, what about the flattened muzzle ring to give it a flange? Any ideas? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 1 March , 2012 Share Posted 1 March , 2012 I wonder if this bayonet has, at some time in its long life, been used as a chisel like tool and the flange is due to being struck with a hammer. May I also ask about the function of the apparently loose collar (the bit with a screw). Some sort of lock? Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2012 .. the function of the apparently loose collar (the bit with a screw). Some sort of lock? Yes, it's a socket bayonet and this is the locking device to fit the bayonet around the barrel fore sight. I do get your point about it possibly having been hammered during use as a chisel, but with a total length of 50 cm and a blade length of 43 that is unlikely - something would have snapped/splintered! Usually these bayonets have a straight collar, and this is the first I have seen with a flange, and at that a flange that is neatly made! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 1 March , 2012 Share Posted 1 March , 2012 Hello do you think the flange would make fitting it to the rifle easier? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2012 ... do you think the flange would make fitting it to the rifle easier? That's an idea! I think GBForum has a dedicated Mosin-Nagant section, so I'll try and get it off to them for comment. Thanks! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 March , 2012 Share Posted 2 March , 2012 More to the point, what about the flattened muzzle ring to give it a flange? Any ideas? I've got no idea - but I'm wondering about some kind of modification undertaken to suit attachment to another rifle.? But that is fairly doubtful.? However I do believe the 'being bashed down by a hammer' theory mentioned is a very strong possibility - the metal does seem to be distorted. PS. Does the symbol/s you've found look anything like the lettering shown in this link HERE.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 March , 2012 Share Posted 7 March , 2012 Trajan, I noticed this additional photo in the other thread which I have reproduced below for reference (hope you don't mind). Actually it has jogged my memory.! I also saw your extra comments on the GB thread about the damaged socket being still intact in the internal measurements which is also a quite unusual situation. I still believe the 'flange' has been formed by repeated hammering with a blunt instrument BUT (and this is the clincher) while still being attached to the M-N rifle.! You see if the hammering was done for some other 'toolwise' purpose the deformation of the metal would have been both on the inside and outside of the socket. It is well known that the Russians left their socket bayonet always attached to their Mosin-Nagant rifles and apparently they were sometimes an extremely tight fit. So much so that I have read somewhere that quite often a hammer was needed to remove the offending socket bayonet from the rifle whenever that was required. So perhaps that solves the question, the flange was formed in normal use by a non-Russian soldier who had the need to keep removing the bayonet from the rifle.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2012 ... It is well known that the Russians left their socket bayonet always attached to their Mosin-Nagant rifles and apparently they were sometimes an extremely tight fit. So much so that I have read somewhere that quite often a hammer was needed to remove the offending socket bayonet from the rifle whenever that was required. So perhaps that solves the question, the flange was formed in normal use by a non-Russian soldier who had the need to keep removing the bayonet from the rifle.! S>S, I like it! I think that's the answer! Mind you, I do wonder what damage this removal technique may have done to the barrel? But, there again, several M91's I have seen in person and on the web are badly pitted in the socket area making me think this part is a softer steel than the blades. Thanks! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 8 March , 2012 Share Posted 8 March , 2012 Nice theory S>S, I think you could be on the money there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 8 March , 2012 Share Posted 8 March , 2012 I think its far more likely that these bayonets were used as tent pegs or a similar task such as guy rope stays. They're pretty well perfect for that task, and it would explain how the flanges have been formed by repeated hammering into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2012 ...used as tent pegs or a similar task such as guy rope stays... Also possible! Another possibility is as a tethering spike for a horse... But, oh, I dunno - it just looks so regular and neatly done! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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