Gun Cotton

[Khaki]

What did gun cotton actually look like? was it like cotton wool or was it more solid? I have read about it like everyone probably hundreds of times and heard that it was packed in bags and pieces were used in jam tin bombs, but I have never seen a photograph of it

khaki

[4thGordons]

What did gun cotton actually look like? was it like cotton wool or was it more solid? I have read about it like everyone probably hundreds of times and heard that it was packed in bags and pieces were used in jam tin bombs, but I have never seen a photograph of it

khaki

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[Pavster1980]

I watched a very interesting series towards the back end of last year with my younger bro, and it was about fire arms through the ages. They did a piece on gun cotton. Will ask him if he still has it on the box and try and find what it was called. I remember it was presented by Lee Ermey who was in Full Metal Jacket.

Rich

[tootrock]

I worked in a small manufacturing laboratory in the early 1960's, and one of our products contained gun cotton.

(From here on we are relying on my memory, so some facts may be suspect)!

We were making a product for the treatment of skin complaints, and the gun cotton was dissolved in a solvent to produce a varnish to be painted on the skin.

The gun cotton was purchased in a tin, approximately 10" diameter by 10" tall, with a push in lid, like a treacle tin, presumably from a chemical suppliers, eg BDH. The material was supplied damp, so that it was safe to handle. It looked just like the picture in post #2. If it dried out it became dangerous.

Martin

[MikB]

I recall seeing photos of it compressed into dense, solid blocks. IIRC these were kept damp, and small inserts of dry guncotton with detonators were used as initiators.

Regards,

MikB

[Ogilwy]

MikB,

I dealt with a jar of it once and it appeared yellowish and honeycombed of an irregular shape. It was dried out and the standing instruction is to destroy without touching of movement! This was fortunately in the grounds of a University who had taken this and several Detonator Elecrtic No1's outside and put them on the grass. Ah, the academic habit of hoarding even when the item is potentially leathal!

It went with a hell of a crack, and all I can say is that as it sensitizes when dry, I hope you never come across any, (little really worries me, but this is one things that does!).

Rod

[centurion]

I recall seeing photos of it compressed into dense, solid blocks. IIRC these were kept damp, and small inserts of dry guncotton with detonators were used as initiators.

Regards,

MikB

I think this was so it could be used for demolition. I've seen references to "slabs of guncotton" being used by RN landing parties.

[tipperary]

Am i right in thinking that when rendered down or melted for disposal the resulting liquid became the basis for celuloise paint/thinners.john

[Pavster1980]

Couldn't find the bit about gun cotton, but I think it was from this episode of Lock 'N' Load on Military history which was comparing ww1 Rifles

My link

Rich

[centurion]

Gun Cotton was used a lot in slab form rather than in the fluffy condition shown

"Without further incident the railway was reached and a two-arch masonry bridge located. The Engineers, with the Auckland and Canterbury men assisting, quickly had charges of guncotton placed and ready for firing. These were successfully fired electrically and the bridge completely demolished—not one stone being left in place. The time occupied on this piece of work was twenty-eight minutes, from the time the force dismounted, 200 yards from the bridge, until they returned and were marching away on the return journey to Ain es Sir. To demolish this bridge 20 cases of guncotton were employed, each case holding 20 slabs or pounds of gun-cotton, the guncotton being placed in four loose heaps over the haunches of the arches.

Guncotton is made so that it will stand a considerable force or blow before exploding, to ensure safety in transport. To assist the detonator to fire the guncotton a hole 1½ inches in diameter is left in the centre of each slab to receive what is called a primer, the detonator fitting into a hole in the primer. In addition to the electric exploder for firing the charges, four fuses were also used in case the exploder failed to operate. In connection with the fuses an incident happened which would have ended the career of all the firing party but for the presence of mind and quickness of action by a Sergeant of the Engineers. At the time it seemed very strange that no guard was found on the railway, and that the work was accomplished without any molestation from the Turks." Official History of the New Zealand Engineers During the Great War 1914-1919

"All three bores were destroyed by blowing in the well casing 25 feet (7.6 metres) below the surface. This was achieved by lowering two or three slabs of guncotton on string into the bore hole after the fuse was lit. This proved very effective and fragments of well casing were blown up to the surface." Destruction of Jifjafa Post 1916 J Underwood

""After long experiment we found this the cheapest and most destructive demolition for a line with steel sleepers. Dig a hole midway between the tracks under a mid-rail sleeper, and work out the ballast from the hollow section of the sleeper. Put in two slabs of guncotton, return the ballast to the hole, and light." T E Lawrence

"A heavier type of bomb was easily made by securing two or three pound slabs of guncotton to a piece of wood shaped like a hairbrush, the handle facilitating a longer throw. Where these could be got into the opposing trenches the results were highly satisfactory, and the destruction was not ; confined to personnel." Official History of the New Zealand Engineers During the Great War 1914-1919

"The "ferret" was an explosive device rigged up by the Royal Engineers consisting of 8 slabs of guncotton and encased with shaped wooden panels which had been rounded so that the charge could be rolled down a dug-out without lodging on the steps!"

"We learn to handle all kinds of bombs and throw them. I had no idea there were so many different kinds. Some are made of jam tins, others of slabs of guncotton tied to pieces of wood with a bullet cap attached."Richardson, Charles Douglas letter home from Salisbury Plain 1916

[Stoppage Drill]

It's the earliest nitrocellulose explosive/propellant using simple cotton (which provided the cellulose)which is treated with acids. In its first form it looks like cotton wool. In the 1840's attempts were made to produce it in a powder/granule form which involved pulping, like paper. It was realised that in the pulp stage it could be moulded into slabs which, when dry, could be cut and drilled.

It was supereseded as a propellant when it was realised that cellulose was better sourced other than from cotton.

It wa standard procedure in the Brit Army in my time to use a guncotton primer as a booster between the detonator and the main plastic charge in explosive trains. These were about the size and shape of a cotton reel, and the det fitted in the central hole.

[MikB]

It's the earliest nitrocellulose explosive/propellant using simple cotton (which provided the cellulose)which is treated with acids. In its first form it looks like cotton wool. In the 1840's attempts were made to produce it in a powder/granule form which involved pulping, like paper. It was realised that in the pulp stage it could be moulded into slabs which, when dry, could be cut and drilled.

It was supereseded as a propellant when it was realised that cellulose was better sourced other than from cotton.

It wa standard procedure in the Brit Army in my time to use a guncotton primer as a booster between the detonator and the main plastic charge in explosive trains. These were about the size and shape of a cotton reel, and the det fitted in the central hole.

I thought it was because dissolving the nitrocellulose in solvents such as ether produced the protoplastic celluloid, resulting in a far more easily-metered and post-processed group of products, including cordite and the granular nitrocellulose propellants we have today. The action of brisant detonation used for demolition was more suited to the basic guncotton product, and significantly different from the progressive burning which was the objective of propellant research.

I think the Germans experimented with nitrating cellulose from other sources - eg. Schulze powders, but for Britain with its extensive imperial sources of the material, cotton must surely have remained the most convenient source of cellulose for easy processing with fluids.

Regards,

MikB

[Khaki]

Thanks everyone for the VERY informative and interesting replies

khaki

[johnlandon1]

Does anyone know the standard issue size and wrapping of gun cotton blocks WW1 period?

[JMB1943]

John,

Welcome to the Forum.

Field Service Pocket Book, 1914, p.116 states,

"A charge of wet guncotton is detonated by means of the explosion of a dry primer in close contact with it.

The slabs and primers for field service are as follows:-

(a) Slab---Weight 15 oz.  Dimensions, 6 x 3 x 1 1/2 inches, with one perforation for the primer.  Each slab is in an hermetically sealed copper-tinned case.

(b) Primer---Weight 1 oz.  Dimensions, 1.35 to 1.15 inches in diameter by 1.25 inches long, with one perforation for the detonator."

Apparently, No. 8 detonator was to be used.

Regards,

JMB

PS No mention of a "wrapping", other than the case described above.

[Chasemuseum]

Very likely to have been wrapped in waxed paper inside the tin, with various information printed on the paper (specifics of the charge, the manufacturer and date of manufacture.) During the war, additional sizes of package were likely to have been adopted. However never having seen a WW1 example I cannot assist.

[Mike_H]

The slab in the photo is displayed in a private collection in France.

M