smleenfield Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Here is the stock disk on a Long Lee that I have not been able to Identify. The butt plate tang is marked N. Z. over R 496. The New Zealand part of its past is obvious. Last stop for the rifle was Canada before it joined my collection. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Here is the stock disk on a Long Lee that I have not been able to Identify. The butt plate tang is marked N. Z. over R 496. The New Zealand part of its past is obvious. Last stop for the rifle was Canada before it joined my collection. Any help will be greatly appreciated. What mark of Long-Lee is this? Is it a CLLE MkI*? Would love to see an overall view. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smleenfield Posted 8 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2012 This one is my Lee Metford. What mark of Long-Lee is this? Is it a CLLE MkI*? Would love to see an overall view. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smleenfield Posted 8 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2012 I have several Long Lee's in the collection. The CLLE came from South Africa with a history. Would like to know if the MLM was used by colonial forces somewhere during the Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 This one is my Lee Metford. Ahh that was what I suspected - the presence of a tang mark and a disc is usually limited to MLMs and MLM's converted to CLLEs MkI*s (which apparently, according to Skennerton were referred to as CLLEs!) That is a very nice selection of Long Rifles you have there - I am envious. I have only two an 1896 MLE MkI* and an India Pattern CLLE. I have to say that I am still looking for my copy of "The Broad Arrow" so I cannot even really guess at your marking. Oh OK I could guess wildly and without any basis: Volunteer Yeomanry Western Australia? The punctuation may be a clue V. YWA2. (the last full-stop seems odd.) I will delve into my notes..... Thanks for the pictures Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 I suspect that is as good a "guess" as any Chris. Skennerton shows "V" over "WA" as Volunteers, Western Australia. With respect to the M.L.M, it may well have seen WWI service in one of the African campaigns, but I would doubt that it did in Europe. However, in the inventory of rifles available at the beginning of the war, the War Office stated that there were still 130,000 "Obsolete Lee Metford rifles in store" and these were only considered fit for issue as training rifles for drill until they were converted.(NA:PRO WO32/4870). Prseumably they were not marked as DP rifles since there were plans to use them after conversion. Thus it is possible that some MLMs saw WWI service with some of the Kitchener battalions until they were withdrawn for conversion. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Enough with the guessing - I've just put in 5 minutes of 'dedicated research' to qualify my answer as an 'educated guess' - and it period qualfies to boot.! I think the V is a strong pointer to a circa turn of the century Volunteer unit, and from memory many of these type units were also loosely termed as 'Artillery'. So with that background I started looking for a Volunteer Artillery with a Y and perhaps a W in the title, and found 2nd Yorkshire (West Riding) Artillery Volunteers. And for those who may require tangible evidence of the above, I hereby quote Wikipedia as my veritable source HERE. And who could question that authority ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Enough with the guessing - I've just put in 5 minutes of 'dedicated research' to qualify my answer as an 'educated guess' - and it period qualfies to boot.! I think the V is a strong pointer to a circa turn of the century Volunteer unit, and from memory many of these type units were also loosely termed as 'Artillery'. So with that background I started looking for a Volunteer Artillery with a Y and perhaps a W in the title, and found 2nd Yorkshire (West Riding) Artillery Volunteers. And for those who may require tangible evidence of the above, I hereby quote Wikipedia as my veritable source HERE. And who could question that authority ... Cheers, S>S Certainly there were Volunteer artillery units, but there were also plenty of infantry and yeomanry ones as well. Also, I would not expect an artillery unit to be armed with long rifles. I don't know what the markings mean, but my gut feeling is that the format does not look right for a British Volunteer Artillery unit. The normal abbreviation for West Riding units was "W.RID". The attached picture is of a butt disk from a Martini Enfield Artillery carbine of the period marked to the 1st Hampshire Artillery which is much more as I would expect. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Certainly there were Volunteer artillery units, but there were also plenty of infantry and yeomanry ones as well. Also, I would not expect an artillery unit to be armed with long rifles. Yeah but the trouble is - (as I thought after I had posted) - would one expect a Yeomanry unit to have long rifles? I would have thought LEC.s? as most were (I think) mounted? so that critique probably works for my guess too I suppose. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Agree, you are right. It does not fit a Yeomanry unit for the same reason! Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 The normal abbreviation for West Riding units was "W.RID". It comes down to the period of the marking, as units changed their name as time progressed. I'm assuming the date was approximately 1888 given Lee Metford rifle, etc. It also depends if its a line regiment or just a county association regiment doing the marking. The Yeomanry type markings always tend to be a bit more haphazard. Then if we look at this quote taken from my linked page:- "By 1880 a number of these Corps had been disbanded or absorbed and the Bradford Brigade became the 2nd Yorkshire (West Riding) Artillery Volunteers." The description of that particular unit matches the markings on the butt disk, and also roughly fits with the date, so I think its as good as you're going to get. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 I can see a kind of logic to that S>S, but I think you are a bit adrift on the dates. The Metford was in front line service from 1889 until after the introduction of the Lee Enfield in 1895. I can't see a Volunteer artillery unit getting the then current front line rifle for some years after their introduction (if indeed an artillery unit ever received long rifles). Indeed , it was for these very types of units that the .303 Martini Metford/Enfield was introduced. Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smleenfield Posted 8 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2012 This was my first guess as to a possible unit. I also wondered if the W A could have indicated some type of unit in West Africa. Metfords tended to see action with secondary and native troops in the less well supplied areas of the war. Given that the rifle is over 120 years old, I'm sure it is well traveled. Ahh that was what I suspected - the presence of a tang mark and a disc is usually limited to MLMs and MLM's converted to CLLEs MkI*s (which apparently, according to Skennerton were referred to as CLLEs!) That is a very nice selection of Long Rifles you have there - I am envious. I have only two an 1896 MLE MkI* and an India Pattern CLLE. I have to say that I am still looking for my copy of "The Broad Arrow" so I cannot even really guess at your marking. Oh OK I could guess wildly and without any basis: Volunteer Yeomanry Western Australia? The punctuation may be a clue V. YWA2. (the last full-stop seems odd.) I will delve into my notes..... Thanks for the pictures Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smleenfield Posted 14 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2012 I think I have finally found out what unit this belonged to. I found a reference to the "Victorian Volunteer Yeomanry from Western Australia". This was a horse mounted regiment of Infantry. They were similar to a Light Horse unit and carried rifles rather than carbines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 14 April , 2012 Share Posted 14 April , 2012 I think I have finally found out what unit this belonged to. I found a reference to the "Victorian Volunteer Yeomanry from Western Australia". This was a horse mounted regiment of Infantry. They were similar to a Light Horse unit and carried rifles rather than carbines. That seems to have cracked it! The idea that just a "W" stood for "West Riding" was never a goer for me (being a Yorkshireman by birth)! Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now