cdr Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 Does anyone have information of german hand grenades in early 1914? A Germen text i'm reading on the attack mentions pioneers armed with handgrenades . Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 They certainly had the 1913 model Kugelhangranate (and also a rodded rifle grenade) at the outbreak of war... unsure off the top of my head of any other patterns... (rusty one dug up on an exclusively 1914 battlefield in the Ardennes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 ... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 carl, I have an entire database (from the Belgian EOD) that lists the grenades and years of introduction. If I have it here I'll post a list, if it's at home then on Friday. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 I thought I had a rifle grenade somewhere, I will have to dig it out. All empty, including fuzes before anyone starts jumping up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 6 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2012 Thanks everyone ! Rod sounds interesting Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 Advice given to bomb instructors and bombers 1917 on some of the above: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 Does anyone have information of german hand grenades in early 1914? A Germen text i'm reading on the attack mentions pioneers armed with handgrenades . The M1913 ball grenade and the M1913 disk grenade were the two main production models. The ball grenade used a friction-activated time fuse, while the disk grenade used an impact fuse that exploded the grenade when it struck the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 The Germans also used improvised "jam tin" grenades, which were filled with explosive material and shrapnel and detonated with a lit time fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 There were also improvised "paddle" grenades, consisting of gun cotton wired to paddle-shaped boards and detonated with a lit time fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdr Posted 6 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2012 Thanks everyone The text i've read, are brigadeorders from the 'handstreich' on Liège ((so very early war !) where pionier units were told to use handgrenades. So most logically the 1913 model. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 so does this mean the German grenades were much more sophisticated at the beginning of the war than anything the British had? Received wisdom indicates we had to rely on improvised jam tins and hairbrush type bombs until the advent of the Mills bomb. True or false? cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2012 Share Posted 6 February , 2012 so does this mean the German grenades were much more sophisticated at the beginning of the war than anything the British had? Received wisdom indicates we had to rely on improvised jam tins and hairbrush type bombs until the advent of the Mills bomb. True or false? False. The British No. 1 percussion grenade was designed in 1908. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_1_Grenade There was also the No. 2 grenade: http://www.inert-ord.net/brit/no2/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 thanks Tom. I remember the cloth streamers now. But it seems from the Wikipedia link the Germans had a low opinion of them. So were the German ones better? cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 Well before that were the Grenade, Hand, Sea Service and the Granade, Hand, Land Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 thanks Tom. I remember the cloth streamers now. But it seems from the Wikipedia link the Germans had a low opinion of them. So were the German ones better? The German disk grenade was very dangerous for the user. To use it, the soldier removed the safety cap and flung the grenade like a discus, causing a rod to fall out in flight. This allowed one to four primers to hit firing pins when the grenade landed on the target, setting off the detonator, which was inserted before use. The cast-iron body consisted of two halves riveted together. This grenade was prone to premature detonation. The ball grenade used black powder ignited by a friction fuse. The problem with it is that it could be accidentally detonated if the wire pull ring got caught on anything before the user was ready to throw it. Even so, the German grenades were more likely to detonate on the target than the British. But in 1915 the Germans adopted a stick grenade, too, so they clearly liked the British idea if not actual design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 The German disk grenade was very dangerous for the user. To use it, the soldier removed the safety cap and flung the grenade like a discus, causing a rod to fall out in flight. This allowed one to four primers to hit firing pins when the grenade landed on the target, setting off the detonator, which was inserted before use. The cast-iron body consisted of two halves riveted together. This grenade was prone to premature detonation. Which is why Bombing Schools warned that, if found, they should be destroyed rather than "recycled" back into German trenches (see Post 7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 The only place I have found the remains of the disk grenade in any numbers are in the fields along the track leading to Highland Cemetery, Roclincourt, there were piles of the things brought up with deep ploughing. They appeared to have been stacked with sacking between them, made me wonder how they were transported. Strange area, I also found several clips of fired cases put back into the clips and what were possibly reversed rounds but I'm not getting into that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 auchonvillerssomme "Strange area, I also found several clips of fired cases put back into the clips and what were possibly reversed rounds but I'm not getting into that discussion". Reversed rounds aside (apparantly the programme was recycled again recently)! I have found sandbags full of re-clipped fired cartridge cases in St Eloi whilst excavating there. I believe they were doing the same as we did and collecting their fired brass for return and recycling back into the chain again! I have only found part of the central fuze spider from a disc grenade once and that was in Loo's. I have had about three or four in the Uk but all were inert and obviously souveniers brought back (I do wish soldiers would not do that ). Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 The only place I have found the remains of the disk grenade in any numbers are in the fields along the track leading to Highland Cemetery, Roclincourt, Never found too many of them myself, but this was just about my favourite that I've ever come across... (still with original finish in parts) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Croonaert, A Belgium beach? It looks to have been placed there. Someone may have discarded it having picked it up and then decided that was not a good idea. These come with a big 'BLOW IN SITU' instruction for EOD Operators! Maybe the reason we find so few is that even the Germans did not like them at the time! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Rod, the empty cases back in the clips, policing your brass or a bored squaddie, I like the idea that nothing changes. I have a close relationship to many lonely parts of the front lines but that area of Roclincourt is well worth visiting, the lines are very close and the amount of spent cartridges, parts of grenades and other bits and pieces both British and German gives a feeling of hard fighting, on a misty, darkening evening you can almost smell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 A Belgium beach? It looks to have been placed there. Someone may have discarded it having picked it up and then decided that was not a good idea. These come with a big 'BLOW IN SITU' instruction for EOD Operators! Certainly hadn't just been placed there...mine were the only footprints in the sand for quite some distance. It was on the exact spot of the German frontline pre-'Strandfest' and is a very quiet section of beach inhabited by the occasional dog-walker and kite flyer only. The area used to be dunes, but these have been eroded over the years leaving traces such as this (and a myriad of shell shards) in this particular stretch. The interesting thing about it being here is that new things are uncovered (and covered!) on a daily basis because of the tides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 10 February , 2012 Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Croonaert, Ah, Ok. We regularly get people having a good look with there hands and the lack of sand around it suggested that someone before you might have done likewise! I know some people involved in the clearence of the beaches and they are surprisingly dirty in a couple of areas I understand. auchonvillerssomme, Roclincourt sounds fascinating. I may be over digging for some weeks later in the year so I will visit then and have a look. Thanks for the steer! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 13 February , 2012 Share Posted 13 February , 2012 URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/kugel.jpg/][/url] Kugel and Diskushandgranate, and one of the first types of stick handgrenandes Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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