Photgraph Identification

[alantwo]

Hi Everyone

I would like your help on identifying the photographbelow. I thought I would start here as I believe that it is revelant to the Gallipoli campaign.

I'll give you what I know, what I think I know and I'm open to suggestions and corrections.

My grandfather is one of the group and he was posted to 'A'Battery, 59^th Brigade, 11^th (Northern) Division. According to the Long Long Trail web-site, the Divisional artillery was based in Sheffield, Leeds, Norwich and Weedon. Entries in my grandfather'sservice record suggest he was based in Sheffield. The LLT also states that they were at Belton Park, Witley, Frensham and Hankey Common at different times early in 1915. Listening to old soldier recordings from the Imperial War Museum, 58^th and 60^th Brigade (same Division) and therefore probably 59^th Brigade, also trained at Chapeltown, Leeds and had live firing training at Pembray, Wales. The Brigade was at Milford Camp prior to entraining to Devonport. Can anyone suggest where the photograph may have been taken?

I have been advised by the Firepower museum that the officer in the centre has the Military Cross. Therefore the date of the photograph is sometime after 28^th December 1914. It was probably taken before 30^thJune 1915 when they commenced their journey that ultimately led to Gallipoli. The men have spurs which suggests drivers though I know for a fact that at least one of them is a gunner. The chaps at the front have crossed flags on the sleeve which I believe are insignia for signallers. There appears to be only one sergeant so is this one complete Battery or only one section or only one gun? If so which?

During their time at Gallipoli the losses they suffered were minimal compared to other regiments however the casualties within 'A' Battery were Commanding Officer Major H P J Cowell, drivers Appleby, Beckwith, Foy, Swift, Cave and Gunners, Chrisp and Robinson. Records held at IWM indicate that Bombardier George Dale was a member of'A' Battery but he was evacuated back to England by October 1915. The Brigade War Diary indicates that one of the officers was a Lieutenant Browne. It is possible that these men are also part of the group.

If the photograph is taken at a later date then the alternative I would suggest is sometime between 4^th April and November 1916. My grandfather was invalided back to England but 're-enlisted' in No.2 Battery, 13^th Brigade, 3 (Lahore) Division and posted with the Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force to Basrah.

Can anyone add, identify or contradict. Thanks in advance.

Regards

Alan

[battiscombe]

I wonder if its an HQ group - I am not sure how large the Bty HQ would be, but there should be signallers, trumpeters, NCOs, BSMajor ... a Brigade HQ should be about 37 men including all officers (lacking here). This looks like a UK camp in 1915 to me.. they were all horseborne so spurs would be normal for drivers. At the start of 1915 Major H Ely was commanding A/59th (then known as 187th Battery) and Captain A J S Roche-Kelly was the battery captain... but the officers were still scarce at that date..and a full complement of officers would have arrived in next months.. Not sure who the MC Captain would be (Henry Cowell did not have the MC, I think) .. the serjeant-major also has some medal ribbons .. a lot of such photos tend to be taken just before departure - the presence of the Captain and serjeant major suggests it is quite formal

[alantwo]

Many thanks for your observations

From his Service Record there isn't any mention of a posting to Headquarters Staff before departure although there is interestingly a reference to one when he reached Suvla Bay. It appears he was posted to Headquarters Staff A/59 at Suvla on 19th August 1915, however a second entry records that he was posted back to 'A' Battery the same day. I agree it looks like a UK camp and the door in the background appears to have 'wing' painted on it. I'm fairly sure that Major Cowell didn't have an MC and there isn't a reference to it in his obituary in The Times 7 September 1915.

I'm interested in your knowledge of the Brigade and that Major H Ely was commanding A/59, where could I look up the Brigade for similar detailed information? My grandfather was originally posted to 189th Battery RFA and was transferred to A/59 at about the time that the Batteries where retitled with letters. It would be interesting to read up on the Battery/Brigade both 189th and 'A' Batteries.

Thanks for your help.

Alan

[battiscombe]

There was some information in the January 1915 Army List - at that time they listed officers in their respective Batteries, Brigades etc for the 'New Armies' then still forming.. but I believe that practice stopped soon after (not in May 1915 Lists) and information on units was removed.

So for 59th Brigade it has Lt Col E A Burrows as c/o, 2Lt Richard Fitton as adjutant.

187th Bty Major Ely, Captain Roche-Kelly;

188th Bty Capt P S Ashford, 2Lt D S H Woodward;

189th Bty only has a Captain H C Armstrong and 2Lt F S Low listed;

BAC Capt W Bird, 2Lt F S Low. B

but a further 50 officers are listed as attached to 11th Div artillery but not assigned to any unit (but no Browne at that time). The renumbering took place in January 1915 when they also formed a D Battery as well for most Brigades.

I also have these notes on B Bty - probably from medal card information.. service records of other known soldiers may provide names of other men and officers and locations on bits of paperwork within them.. hence a Sgt Hoggars papers identify his c/o in C/59 as Capt Armstrong. As you have some names of casualties their records - if they survive - may provide a few more clues..

Captain P A Ashford,

2Lt DSH Woodward

2LT Walter Boulton Siddons

2Lt A D Macfarlane.

BSM Frank Inglis [13322] B/59th 1918

[alantwo]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply

I have checked for the Service Records of all the casualties and they appear not to have survived. Bombardier George Dale's record has survived but he was with the A/59 only a short time at Suvla Bay. I'm aware of a B/59 casualty, 50049 Sergeant John Corbett, regretfully his record hasn't survived either. Lieutenant Browne is mentioned in the 59th Brigade RFA War Diary on 9th August 1915 'Ammunition having by this time arrived Lieutenant BROWNE had breach blocks replaced and Battery opened fire.....'. As this was just after the landings it had occured to me that he had probably arrived with the Battery rather than being a replacement. Worth a try.

Thanks again.

Alan

[dickiek]

All.

 

I'm just picking up on this as I've found an Officers Sam Browne belt marked up to a 2/Lt Richard Fitton A 59 RFA. . .
I found his record of service on the RFA website. . . He was awarded an MC.

I see references about a photo with an Officer wearing a MC. . . There is also a link to  Major H P J Cowell

I can't see the photo mentioned, but would like to see it to link it to 2/Lt Richard Fitton.

 

Thanks