Seadog Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 A postcard of an unidentified soldier; can members identify the model of rifle please. Various suggestions have already been made and it would be good to have confirmation Thanks Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 A postcard of an unidentified soldier; can members identify the model of rifle please. Various suggestions have already been made and it would be good to have confirmation Thanks Norman Looks like a Lee Metford to me with a lovely P1888 bayonet stuck on the end, real nice pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Lee Metford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Lee Metford. Nuh.! I believe it is the 'Long Lee' Enfield rifle with the 'charger bridge' modification added, so a CLLE to the Enfield anoraks.! PS. But then again it could be the similarly modified version of the Metford rifle, which then became known as the CLLM.! While the earlier Metford rifles had the finger grips, these later modified versions appeared similar to the CLLE, so could be that.? I'm now leaning towards it being the CLLM, due to the foresight protector and the slightly different rear-sight. Will await confirmation.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 As it has a charger bridge it is definitely a converted CLLx, but is it a CLLM or a CLLE? The easiest distinguishing feature between them is that the CLLE has a cocking piece safety whilst the CLLM does not, and of course in the picture the chap's thumb is covering the cocking piece! However, I think I can make out enough of the cocking piece to say that it looks like it has the safety so I would go for a CLLE Mark I*. It also looks like the magazine has been replaced with one from a SMLE. Chris? Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 29 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2012 The image is here where it can be enlarged if that is any help: Flickr Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Thanks, seeing it at its original size firms up my thoughts. Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 CLLE 1* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 CLLE 1* Agree. CLLE MkI* approved July 1908 (note foresight protector (just visible) and adjusting wheel on the rear sight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 These opinions are all very interesting, but hopefully a real expert will pop up shortly to tell us whether these modifications were carried out in large numbers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Naughty, naughty! Do you like my new signature? Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 29 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Many thanks for the info, can you guys please summarize a simple description of the weapon so that I can add it to the photo. Cheers Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Many thanks for the info, can you guys please summarize a simple description of the weapon so that I can add it to the photo. Cheers Norman How is this? The CLLE is the final iteration of the traditional "infantry rifle" length Lee-Metford/Enfield that had been introduced into British service 1889. It had an overall length of 1257mm and weighed about 4.2kg without the bayonet. One of the innotvations of the MkIII Short Magazine Lee-Enfield (approved 26th Jan 1907) was a rigid charger bridge over the action allowing for rapid refilling of the magazine using chargers (sprung steel clips) holding five rounds each. The early MkI SMLEs had a guide for the charger mounted on the bolt head and this proved unsatisfactory. Charger-loading was a feature that was not present on the earlier (long) Magazine Lee-Enfields where the magazine had to be loaded one round at a time. After the introduction of the SMLE MkIII a program to convert magazine Lee-Enfields (and surviving Lee-Metfords - the difference is essentially in the rifling) was approved in 1908. This conversion consisted of adding the charger bridge over the action and removing the dustcover and dustcover lugs from the bolt. The foresight was modified to make it adjustable (it had not been on the MLE/MLM) and it was provided with a pair of protector "wings" which were a separate piece. A modified rear-sight was also fitted. Large numbers of these rifles remained in service, in particular with Territorial units, at the outbreak of war. In 1914 an additional recalibration of the rear sight to accommodate the MkVII cartridge was introduced. CLLE saw significant service in the first two years of the war on the Western Front, although most units had replaced theirs by mid 1916. The latest date I have seen reference to in unit diaries is mid 1917. The rifles continued in secondary service throughout the war. There was an Indian pattern coversion which is externally virtually identical. Sources: List of Changes, Skennerton "The Lee Enfield Story", Stratton "The SMLE Lee Enfield" and Walter "Allied Small Arms of WWI" Several GWF threads have discussed the use/latest use. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 How is this? The CLLE is the final iteration of the traditional "infantry rifle" length Lee-Metford/Enfield that had been introduced into British service 1889. It had an overall length of 1257mm and weighed about 4.2kg without the bayonet. One of the innotvations of the MkIII Short Magazine Lee-Enfield (approved 26th Jan 1907) was a rigid charger bridge over the action allowing for rapid refilling of the magazine using chargers (sprung steel clips) holding five rounds each. The early MkI SMLEs had a guide for the charger mounted on the bolt head and this proved unsatisfactory. Charger-loading was a feature that was not present on the earlier (long) Magazine Lee-Enfields where the magazine had to be loaded one round at a time. After the introduction of the SMLE MkIII a program to convert magazine Lee-Enfields (and surviving Lee-Metfords - the difference is essentially in the rifling) was approved in 1908. This conversion consisted of adding the charger bridge over the action and removing the dustcover and dustcover lugs from the bolt. The foresight was modified to make it adjustable (it had not been on the MLE/MLM) and it was provided with a pair of protector "wings" which were a separate piece. A modified rear-sight was also fitted. Large numbers of these rifles remained in service, in particular with Territorial units, at the outbreak of war. In 1914 an additional recalibration of the rear sight to accommodate the MkVII cartridge was introduced. CLLE saw significant service in the first two years of the war on the Western Front, although most units had replaced theirs by mid 1916. The latest date I have seen reference to in unit diaries is mid 1917. The rifles continued in secondary service throughout the war. There was an Indian pattern coversion which is externally virtually identical. Sources: List of Changes, Skennerton "The Lee Enfield Story", Stratton "The SMLE Lee Enfield" and Walter "Allied Small Arms of WWI" Several GWF threads have discussed the use/latest use. Chris Metric dimensions...?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 29 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Members efforts are very much appreciated. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Metric dimensions...?! Ha well OK then.... approximately 49 1/2 inches overall length and 9lbs 4oz weight. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Agree. CLLE MkI* approved July 1908 (note foresight protector (just visible) and adjusting wheel on the rear sight) But did not the CLLM also feature these, I think the only visible difference was in the bolthead, which is mostly obscured, but I agree it most likely is the CLLE. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Do you like my new signature? I don't like it - I LOVE it.!! (What a laugh.!) About time you had something 'worthwhile' to put down there .... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 But did not the CLLM also feature these, I think the only visible difference was in the bolthead, which is mostly obscured, but I agree it most likely is the CLLE. Cheers, S>S Yes - but as Tony had already indicated this difference (and I agree I think part of a safety is visible), I was seeking to distinguish the rifle as the CLLE MkI* from The CLLE MkI which did not IIRC display these features. Chris P.S. and I think you mean "cocking piece"? the bolt head being the other end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Do you like my new signature? I'm sorry, but if you think I'm going to rush to join the unseemly stampede to admire your new signature, you're very much mistaken ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 I'm sorry, but if you think I'm going to rush to join the unseemly stampede to admire your new signature, you're very much mistaken ... Like those Lemming characters, you mean ... ( followers, followers - when the whole world is crying out for a true leader ) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 P.S. and I think you mean "cocking piece"? the bolt head being the other end! You do realise that may (or may not) have been thrown in there as 'berley'.? So did I get a nibble.? ...'pedant baiting' may become the next Olympic sport.! Recall all those glorious forum 'debates' of the past, especially those concerning the commonly known "bullet heads" ... you'll have to forgive me, I couldn't resist.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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