K.O.S.B. Left Dublin in July 1914

[BrendanLee]

I am researching the incident in Dublin when 4 people were killed by the K.O.S.B. when attacked by a crowd of rioters after the Howth gun running incident. I have the names of some K.O.S.B. involved and know they were part of the 2^nd Battalion. Is it possibly to find out or does anyoneknow what happened these K.O.S.B. men after they left Dublin. I found plenty of information on the 2^nd Battalion in WW1 but was wondering was it possible to find out if the K.O.S.B. from Dublin were involved.

Unfortunately I only have surnames and in some cases initials. The names I have are, Major Haig, Captain Cobden, Private Douglas, Private J Porter, Private Lennox, and Lance-Corporal Finney. I have put a link below to the page on my website with details of the event. I am not looking for any information on the Bachelors Walk incident or the Howth Gun Running only what happened to the 2^ndBattalion K.O.S.B. after they left Dublin.

http://www.irishmedals.org/gpage20.html

[roughdiamond]

Maj Haig and Capt Cobden could be Major later Lt/Col Alfred Edward Haig http://www.nationala...pe=1=* and Capt H Cobden http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1 neither appear on CWGC, but their MIC's actually state they were 2nd Bn.

As does 7775 Pte Peter Finney's http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1 who was later KIA with the 6th Bn his number given as A/7775 on 03/05/1917 http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=1557022 he could be L/Cpl Finney, worth checking his MIC for a theatre entry date which should be around 15/08/1914 when the 2nd Bn arrived in France.

Pte J Porter could be 10987 Pte James Porter, he has 2 MIC's (neither say 2nd Bn) http://www.nationala...pe=1=* he was KIA 14/10/1914 and is listed on CWGC as 2nd Bn http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=1560694

There are 16 MIC's for men named Lennox in the KOSB none state 2nd Bn http://www.nationala...pe=1=* many will be from later in the War, best thing to do is check each MIC on Ancestry and see if they have a theatre entry date again around 15/08/1914, there are only 2 x men named Lennox from the KOSB on the CWGC site and neither is 2nd Bn.

Finally Pte Douglas, there are 105 MIC's http://www.nationala...pe=1=* like Pte Lennox none state 2nd Bn.

2 possibles are 10225 Pte James Sanderson Jardine Douglas http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1 and 8427 Pte William Douglas http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1 it doesn't say 2nd Bn on their MIC's but it does on James' CWGC entry from 13/10/1914 http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=858694 and William's from 26/08/1914 http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=878431 bear in mind though there could have been many more Pte Douglas' landed in France with the 2nd Bn in 1914.

Sam

[lostinspace]

Here is a little more information on Major Haig (from the Army List and Nigel Cave & Jack Sheldon's "Le Cateau") - Haig had been a staff officer for a number of years, a GSO 2 Coast Defence, Southern Command as recently as 1912, but in July 1914 was second in command of 2nd K.O.S.B. He fought at Mons and again at Le Cateau but was wounded in the shoulder and then captured at the Reumont dressing station on the 27th of August, he remained a POW until October of 1918.

The Quarterly Army List didn't have any additional information on Captain Hugh Cobden.

What I'm wondering is if the battalion returned to Royal Barracks (or another barracks) after 4 August. Westlake shows that they sailed for Le Havre from Dublin on the 14th, I doubt that the K.O.S.B. would have been able to absorb 700 reservists (according to Cave/Sheldon) on board a ship.

Regards,

Dave

[jdoyle]

I am researching the incident in Dublin when 4 people were killed by the K.O.S.B. when attacked by a crowd of rioters after the Howth gun running incident.

There was a young girl killed too (I forget her name at the moment but will look it up) who brought the initial number killed to 4.

Sylvester Pidgeon died of bayonets wounds some time later (24th Sept 1914) bringing the number killed to 5.

http://www.dublin.ie...=1&d=1281102320

[BrendanLee]

There was a young girl killed too (I forget her name at the moment but will look it up) who brought the initial number killed to 4.

Sylvester Pidgeon died of bayonets wounds some time later (24th Sept 1914) bringing the number killed to 5.

http://www.dublin.ie...=1&d=1281102320

I have Mr Pidgeon on the causality list, see the link in my original post. There is a book called Dublin in Rebellion which records Alice Brady as being shot dead in the Bachelors Walk incident but she was actuallykilled during the Dublin Lockout, she died in January 1914, she was shot by a civilian. I tend not to use modern Irish histories when researching as I find their research, to be kind to them, is somewhat lacking.

[BrendanLee]

Here is a little more information on Major Haig (from the Army List and Nigel Cave & Jack Sheldon's "Le Cateau") - Haig had been a staff officer for a number of years, a GSO 2 Coast Defence, Southern Command as recently as 1912, but in July 1914 was second in command of 2nd K.O.S.B. He fought at Mons and again at Le Cateau but was wounded in the shoulder and then captured at the Reumont dressing station on the 27th of August, he remained a POW until October of 1918.

The Quarterly Army List didn't have any additional information on Captain Hugh Cobden.

What I'm wondering is if the battalion returned to Royal Barracks (or another barracks) after 4 August. Westlake shows that they sailed for Le Havre from Dublin on the 14th, I doubt that the K.O.S.B. would have been able to absorb 700 reservists (according to Cave/Sheldon) on board a ship.

Regards,

Dave

Dave thank you for the information. The newspaper reports givethe impression that the Battalion left Dublin on the night of the 31^stJuly 1^st of August but as you say 700 would have been a lot, I suspect the 160 involved in the riot might have gone first and the restfollowed later, maybe the 14^th is when the last of them had left.

Roughdiamond. Thank you for the information, I will check them out on Ancestry .

[jdoyle]

I have Mr Pidgeon on the causality list, see the link in my original post. There is a book called Dublin in Rebellion which records Alice Brady as being shot dead in the Bachelors Walk incident but she was actuallykilled during the Dublin Lockout, she died in January 1914, she was shot by a civilian. I tend not to use modern Irish histories when researching as I find their research, to be kind to them, is somewhat lacking.

yes Alice Brady was the name I had as being killed at Bachelor's Walk. Just seen your thread on Rootschat correcting that.

[jdoyle]

I think Capt Cobden was Hugh Codben, born Ireland 1881 (Raheen, Clonmel).

His wife was from Co Tipp and died in Cheltenham, 1943

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36064/pages/2848/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27293/pages/1766

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27155/pages/361

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28097/pages/141

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31838/supplements/3740/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32765/pages/7941/page.pdf

Hugh Cobden died in Cheltenham in 1957. His brother was Lt Col George Gough Cobden, 9th Lancers.

The family home is still in existence though it's usage has changed. Bought by their father Capt George Edward Codben (originally from Essex)

http://www.niriainphotography.com/home/weddings/locations/raheen_house/

George Edward Cobden married Georgina Gough, grand daughter of Lt Col George Gough of the City of Limerick Militia. His brother was Field Marshal Viscount Sir Hugh Gough. Georgina's brother was also named Hugh.

One of the KOSB officers at Bachelor's Walk was 2nd Lt Gilbert Hammond (De Ruvigny entry confirms his presence in Dublin during the street fighting in July 1914)

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=878898

Corporal George Ludlow was also at Bachelor's Walk. KIA Oct 1914

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=856437

Ditto Private Edmund Bendilow(e)/Bendelow

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=460619

Possibly Private Douglas. In the enquiry, Douglas fired twice "and dropped 2 bullets"

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=858694

[caplestreetman]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum, I have been researching the Royal Commission into the circumstances connected with the Landing of Arms at Howth on July 26th, 1914

Minutes of Evidence.

I am trying to find out if the 2nd Battalion Kings Own Scottish Borderers called out to Howth and involved in Bachelor's Walk would have been wearing steel helmets as part of their standard kit. It was reported in evidence that stones. bricks and other missiles were thrown at them on their journey back into Dublin City 

CSM

 

[Chris_Baker]

No, they would not. Steel helmets were not introduced until 1916.

[caplestreetman]

Hello Chris,

I appreciated your prompt reply, so would I be correct in saying no head protection was worn?

CSM

[Tom Lang]

The War Diary (courtesy TNA) shows that the 2nd Bn KOSBs were mobilized on the 4th, sailed from Dublin on 14th & arrived Le Havre 15th Aug 1914.

Maybe the title of the OP should reflect this.

Tom.

[caplestreetman]

Hello Tom,

Very interesting and informative information on the date the 2nd Bn The K.O.S. Borderers left Dublin

Cheers

CSM