jscott Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Something I picked up over the Christmas break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2012 and another closeup of the hilt... I presume that these were not usually maker marked - mine has a fraktur mark but nothing else. The paint appears original (and is flaking off in parts) but I could be wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 January , 2012 Share Posted 10 January , 2012 I presume that these were not usually maker marked - mine has a fraktur mark but nothing else. The paint appears original (and is flaking off in parts) but I could be wrong... About time you started posting some photos for us - you've got some nice stuff to share, so we now expect to see MORE.!! ... (much more) I think you're correct about the makers marks, I don't think they were very often marked at all. Many of the smaller workshops would not even have had a mark.! Thats an interesting looking scabbard, is it entirely made of steel.? Note the way they have made use of the original style topmount from the leather scabbards. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 January , 2012 Share Posted 10 January , 2012 Nice one, jscot! It looks like it's an EB 41, one of the 'Ersatz Seitengewehr 98/05' group, as the blade is close to that of a standard 98/05. That said, the pointed end on yours looks a bit odd, as if shortened, or if the false edge has been extended backwards. The 'standard' blade length of the EB 41 is 361 mm, give or take a mm or two. Mind you, Carter does say (EB, p.28) that 'Later examples of blades [for this type] are so crudely finished ... that no two are identical'. (BTW, he also illustrates these in his 98/05 book, pp. 40-43) The scabbard is the right type as well - as S>S indicates the top mount is like those found on a standard pre-1915 leather 98/05 scabbard. In this case if might be a spare or reused one or a deliberate copy. This type of scabbard, by the way, is quite different from the usual run-ofd-the-mill Ersatz zcabbards. You say it has a fraktur mark - where? On the ricasso or the spine? These are the only marks usually found on these models, although some do have an inspection-type mark on the ricasso or pommel. Of interst is Carter's comment that althrough sawback versions of this type do exist (EB 42), none have been found with the sawback removed, which would imply that they were not in front-line service when the 'remove sawback' order was issued in the closing months of 1917. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 10 January , 2012 Share Posted 10 January , 2012 Hi, I have the same one with indentical scabbard, also the saw back version seems this type was mostly used by Bvarian units Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 January , 2012 Share Posted 10 January , 2012 .. I have the same one with indentical scabbard, also the saw back version. seems this type was mostly used by Bvarian units, I have neither and wouldn't mind one of either type... I just checked Carter, the 98/05 volume. On p. 40 he says - 'It has often been alleged that these bayonets are Bavarian, and it is possible that they are, but no evidence to substantiate this claim has been discovered.' Note also that on p. 42 he reports two examples of this type with crowned W inspection marks = Kaiser Bill of Prussia, and he does not refer to any other 'royally' marked examples. So, on that basis these are Prussian! I also checked Carter's original Ersatz Bayonets volume. He does not give any examples of regimentally-marked bayonets of this type, so no indication from that source as to where they were made or who used them. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2012 Hi all Thanks for your comments. I haven't had an opportunity to fully check out the Carter designation but from a quick glance I think it may be an EB45 as the blade is parallel - not leaf shaped like a 98/05 (Trajan - this may account for the odd look you refer to?). If anyone has the relevant Carter ersatz book I would be very interested to hear what he says about this one... The scabbard is all steel but as noted it is based on the look of a leather scabbard. The fraktur mark is on the spine. Overall the bayonet is of much higher quality than the other ersatz bayonet I own - and I quite like the look and feel of the steel hilt - it has seen some good use but is obviously more robust than a wood grip so has stayed in good condition. S/S - now that I have got around to working out the uploading process I will put up some more photos soon. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 January , 2012 Share Posted 10 January , 2012 ... but from a quick glance I think it may be an EB45 as the blade is parallel - not leaf shaped like a 98/05 (Trajan - this may account for the odd look you refer to?). Rats, I have only just seen this post and 30 minutes ago I lent my copy of the Carter Ersatz book to a mate who will have it until Friday... So I can't check until then... However, I see what you mean about the blade being parallel - I was confused by the angle of the photo, which made the blade tip seem rather broader than the ricasso end. Either way, a very nice bayonet - and as with S>S, I am looking forward to some more sightings of your collection! On which note I got a new digital camera for New Year's Eve, and when I have worked out how it works (it has more functions than I have pints of beer in a month) and also when I have got the end of term exams and a paper for a journal done ( ), then I'll start to put some piccies of my babies up as well. But I have to admit, very few of my slim pickings over here come near the quality of what I see from you guys over there and down under! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2012 Thanks Trajan - much appreciated! Always good to hear what Carter has to say on these things, I will need to keep an eye out for that book. If you'd like I can post a few pictures of some 1907s that I own which were found by farmers in Zonnebeke/ Broodseinde and Becealare, they are certainly in "heavily used" condition, but to be honest I find them equally as interesting as those in better condition (and there is certainly a more tangible link to the history of the bayonet too). Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 11 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2012 Cnock - are your bayonets the one with the parallel blade, or the leaf shaped blade (like a 98/05)? Thanks, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 January , 2012 Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Jscott, I'll send you a PM with a PDF of the pages from Carter EB, nos. 38-47, to help you decide what it is! Trajan EDIT: Rats... It is too large at 2M to load on the GWF system - will you send me your e-mail address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 17 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Wonderful, thanks Trajan. I will send you my details now. Much appreciated, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 17 January , 2012 Share Posted 17 January , 2012 jscott, sorry, made a mistake the ones I have are with a parallel blade Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 17 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Cnock - yes mine has a parallel blade as well (although the photo is slightly misleading). Thanks, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2012 Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Hello Trajan. How much is Carters EB book these days? Regards, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 17 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Hi Wardog - I am also looking for a copy. Its £59 on Amazon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 17 January , 2012 Share Posted 17 January , 2012 Hi Jscott. I was lucky enough to get one about 15 years back and as it sounds like Trajan has started the year off with a copy I was wondering the present value- so thanks for the update. My one was from Ray Westlake books, but I don't think he sells any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 January , 2012 Share Posted 17 January , 2012 ... I was wondering the present value ... Well, mine came from a contact in Bulgaria, nicely hard bound in blue and with a gold embossed title on the cover, etc, but I discovered on delivery it is a very good photocopy, not an original, and so - ahem - a breach of copyright... I didn't know that when I bought it, but I still think it is good value at EU 40. Can't understand why the Carter family or somebody doesn't reprint it, or the revised version (Carter German bayonets vol 4): both are in great demand. Anyway, Jscott, GBP 59 seems a good bargain: I have seen them advertised at over USD 120... I was despairing of ever getting one - and relied extensively on writing to Wardog for his much appreciated help in identifying the ones I had (thanks again Paul - and hold on to that copy, it increases in value every day!). Then I mentioned the problem to this guy I know in Bulgaria, who came up with the offer....Crazy thing is, I was/am aware of somebody in Poland who does a straight photocopy, spiral bound, of this book for GBP 15 - but being honest ( ) I didn't want to encourage trade through her... only to end up with a photocopy at a more expensive price - but I have to admit, it's very nicely hard-bound ! Ah well, we live and learn.. Trajan PS: A thought. I suppose that in theory we could combine our collections and collective knowledge and examples to produce our own 'cover' of EB??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 18 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2012 Thanks Trajan for sending through the relevant pages from Carter - I am fairly certain that I have an EB45 - and agree with Carter's comment that these are very well made. I will be keeping my eyes peeled for a copy of that EB book, or may just request it as a birthday gift if a cheaper copy doesn't turn up soon. It does seem odd that they don't reprint the book, but perhaps there isnt much demand (outside this forum anyway!)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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