Bardess Posted 7 January , 2012 Share Posted 7 January , 2012 I already have: Name: BROWN Initials: D Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps Unit Text: Mechanical Transport Secondary Unit Text: attd. Anti Aircraft Sect. Age: 26 Date of Death: 07/11/1918 Service No: M2/191303 Additional information: Husband of Bertha Brown, of 43, Rabone Lane, Smethwick, Staffs. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: S. II. U. 24. Cemetery: ST. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN This is another David Brown and he served with ASC and died on 9th Nov 1918. His home address is given as 74 Wills Street, Smethwick. The problem is that the further info claims that the D Brown who lived in Rabone Lane was a Driver and the D Brown who lived in Wills Street was a Pte. It seems to me that the entry above is a merging of both sets of data. Help please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 7 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2012 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Grundy Posted 7 January , 2012 Share Posted 7 January , 2012 Diane According to 'Soldiers Died in the Great War', there were two David Browns who died with the Army Service Corps. One is the man you've shown above, the other was a David John Brown from Edinburgh who died on 21st October 1918. Service numbers in the Army Service Corps often come with a prefix denoting the particular trade of the man in question. M2 denotes an electrician, however, many drivers had such a prefix too. Some were differentiated by being given a DM2 prefix but by no means all. I'm sure that's the case here. Regards, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 7 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2012 Hi Jim. Thanks but I think I can safely rule out 043574 and he enlisted in Edinburgh and still lived there. Smethwick is in the Midlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Grundy Posted 7 January , 2012 Share Posted 7 January , 2012 I think that is precisely what I was trying to suggest, Diane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 7 January , 2012 Share Posted 7 January , 2012 According to his MIC, M2/191303 was a Private, Diane - though didn't various regiments/corps sometimes have different terms for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 7 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2012 Thanks Jim and Louise. I was trying to find their Service records but no such luck so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 8 January , 2012 Share Posted 8 January , 2012 Diane, Had you considered that it may be the same person, but submitted by two different people, such as his wife and possibly his parents. Are there any clues in the 1911 census regarding the Wills St address? I wouldn't attach too much importance to the Private / Driver discrepancy with family submitted entries. Likewise with the date discrepancy of a couple of days. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 8 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2012 Thanks Phil. I'm waiting patiently for the 1911 Census to arrive on Ancestry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 8 January , 2012 Share Posted 8 January , 2012 FMP are offering a decent discount on the 1911 census this month, to celebrate the fact that they're revealing previously hidden details (the "infirmity" health column) so I thought I'd have a look for you Diane. There are clearly missing papers, as only nos 6, 7 then 44 & 45 are available (then a gap between 83 and 104) for the Rabone address. Unfortunately it doesn't recognise a street called Wills anywhere in the country. And there were only three David Browns living in Staffordshire born 1892 +/-5 years: one in Newcastle Under Lyme (b.1890), the second in Lichfield (b.1889)and the third in Walsall (b.1888). Widening it to men born in Staffordshire produces a further 4, including one born in 1892 in Cannook(?) and living in King's Norton, Worcestershire. The others are: (1) b.1887 living in Nottingham, (2) b.1896 livining in Belper. Derbyshire and (3) middle name Harold b.1895 living in Middlesbrough, Yorkshire. Finally a 17 year old "David Broun" living with his family at 27 Marston Road, Stafford. Could you be looking at someone whose first name wasn't David, like Harry Lund? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 9 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Wills Street used to run between Raglan Road and Grove Lane but was demolished along with Reynolds Street to build flats in the 50/60s. Rabone Lane runs into Rolfe Street [where I was born]. Oh no, don't say his name is ????? David! Thanks again for looking Louise. If the pages are missing from FMP does that mean that they won't materialise on Ancestry? With a surname of Brown I don't like my chances of finding an answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 With chunks like that missing, I imagine it's pages rather than just the odd sheet. Although FMP say: "The collection of household schedules is complete, although around five per cent sustained water damage many years ago. All records have been scanned and transcribed, though inevitably the water-damaged documents are of poorer quality. A small portion of the enumerators’ summary books are missing from the archives and therefore will never be available to view online." For Staffordshire, this affects Repton and Tamworth. Given the fact that neither address seem to be available, it's probably safest to assume he was a David: as you say, "Brown" is hard enough to track down as it is. Hopefully Phil's explanation is the correct one, but just frustrating not to be able to confirm it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 I have found using the FMP Address search very difficult at times. Not all houses were numbered and sometimes, say for example, they were in a row of terraced "villas" they are sometimes described - on the census sheet - as (and here I have made up an address) 1, 2, 3, Alma Villas and the road is not mentioned at all. This means the road is not included in the transcription (how could it be?) so a road search, sadly, will not find these houses. I have also found addresses where the house can only be defined by describing its position. I have seen "back of" or "lane behind" and maybe these descriptions are locally used and can vary according to personal choice. I have found a great deal of lateral thinking is needed, and this can be very brain-stretching! In this case it doesn't help having two Smethwicks. Using the 1911 census, The Rabone Lane with properties 8 - 43 inc. missing is in Smethwick Worcestershire - Registration District Kings Norton. I cannot bring up any other Rabone Lane. I can also bring up a Wills Street in Smethwick, Kings Norton, Worcestershire and the only other one found is in Warwickshire. Are we actually looking at the "one born in 1892 in Cannook(?) and living in King's Norton, Worcestershire here? Just my thoughts.... CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 I can also offer a David Brown who married a Bertha A Taylor in the 4Q 1913, and the marriage was registered in Kings Norton, Worcestershire. Hmmm, I have muddied the waters a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Yes, that's true - I hadn't looked at the county, just Smethwick but I can see that now. One residence is "next to...". It doesn't help that it rejects wildcards in the address searches. I can't get a Wills Street up at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Oh!! I thought I would have a look at the Wills Street in Worcestershire, in 1911, for a Brown family living there. Well - the street listing says Wills Street, Smethwick, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, but the first individual house page says ...... Address: Wills Street Smethwick Staffordshire County: Worcestershire I have to stop and get on with other things now, but if anyone else wants to continue this is the reference, on FMP, for the original census sheet. Of course, being 1911 the only address on the sheet is where the Head of the household signs - so it just says Smethwick. I haven't time now, but the thing to do would be to go back through the sheets to find the enumerators header. 1911 Census Wills Street Smethwick Staffordshire Kings Norton, Worcestershire Reference RG14PN17986 RG78PN1094 RD383 SD4 ED44 SN124 CGM Edited to add Hi Verrico! This is a classic, I feel. When it's all sorted I think I'll be doing yet another transcription error report. Back later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 PS is this the same for the Worcestershire Rabone Lane, I wonder? But then the marriage can't be wrong? Fortunately I hadn't closed that page and it is definitely Kings Norton. And now I really must get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 I've tried to go back to square 1. How many Smethwicks are there? I've found this: Smethwick Originally in Staffordshire. In 1966 it was transferred into Worcestershire. Since 1974 it has been West Midlands County. Current addresses on the internet, looked at randomly, seem to use Worcestershire. (e.g. This is a bit odd, but ....Upper St. Marys Road, West Midlands, Smethwick, Worcestershire, B67 5JR) But records pre 1966 should never be described as Worcestershire?? However, moving on, there is only one Smethwick. So, back to finding the BROWN family(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Is this him in 1911: David Brown, age 19, born Cannock, Carter of Hay and ?, living at l Bk l Bridge St Smethwick. (Could this be One Back Lane?) with his widowed mother and two older brothers. If he married in 1913 did he move to Wills Street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Last offering, I think. Sometimes 1/2 is used in addresses and the Rabone address in #2 looks very much like 4 1/2 to me. I've looked at Rabone Lane back through the years and in 1891 3 and 4 are "backs" and numbers 5, 6, and 7 are complicated by being used twice on the census sheet, next to each other. Once for Rabone Lane and again for Violet Place. 8 is just Violet Place. No help with finding 43 but it fills in some of the numbers which are missing from the 1911 census and is an example of how difficult address searching can be. Needless to say a search for Violet Place in the 1911 census only brings up 4 in other parts of the country. Oh, and there is a 1/2 in this road (there is 117 and 117 1/2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 There were a few oddities in this area, Worcs and Staffs historically each had exclaves in the other county (Warwicksire may have done too). Add to this registration counties, used by the census, didn't necessarily match the administrative counties which formed county councils. I think there's actually only one Smethwick, but different people will have had different views as to which county it was in. The address at the bottom of the household form was filled in by the householder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Thank you David. I think I owe FMP an apology here. The transcriptions are probably all 'as was'. For example, I think I noticed, in passing, an adjustment of parishes divided Rabone Lane at some time in the 1800s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 9 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Click to enlarge image My computer has just had a major strop and kicked me out for about 40 minutes. I've lost my post and can't remember what I'd said. I think it was something like... BRAVO!!! Queens of BMD and FMP to be sure. Thanks for your efforts - and I know how time-consuming it can be. The only bit of info I can give is that Smethwick was Harborne then Kings Norton then Staffordshire then Worcestershire then West Midlands and the timeframe was about 1900 to about 1970 or thereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 9 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Just remembered a bit more Post #2 is from the Birmingham Honour Roll and is listed, as shown, one under the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 9 January , 2012 Share Posted 9 January , 2012 Not sure that we have explained the two entries though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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