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Remembered Today:

OLDEST SERVICEMAN


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Can anyone verify who was the oldest to sign up & what his age was?

Dave Upton

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Can anyone verify who was the oldest to sign up & what his age was?

Dave Upton

If navy, I put forward Lieut.Commander Henry Thomas Gartside-Tipping, R.N. Born around 1848 in Dublin he was killed off the H.M. Yacht Sanda in September 1915 (aged 67). He had already retired from the navy by 1901.

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James White R.E. reported to be a sprightly 70! gramps-1.gif

Excellent responses, thank you very much to both.

Dave Upton

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It is a difficult question to answer accurately, do you mean age on signing or serving? It would be interesting to know the oldest who signed up with no previous military service.

There are certainly men who attested at 65 years, Joseph Folley ASC Remounts was one, signing with his mark 'X'.

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It'll probably be impossible to say with any real degree of proof! Anyone who was over 39 and who enlisted as per Dave's original post would have lied about his age or he wouldn't have been allowed in. So the oldest person to enlist would have to be someone who falsified his age and if that person never declared his real age, we'll never know what it was.

Tom

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This from my Duty Done ...... relevant in a way, illustrating the old regular.

Private 890 Michael O’Brien, RWF. Michael was the genuine “old soldier”, good value to the regiment and the army. He signed with a witnessed cross when he enlisted in Templemore, Ireland on 18th December 1884. Aged 22 years, he was a labourer, 5 feet 10 inches, 146 lbs, with black hair and hazel eyes. Four years later Michael married Margaret Joyce of Galway, with whom he eventually had seven children until, worn out, she died of tuberculosis in 1908. He went to the First Battalion in India and served in the Hunza campaign of 1891, by this time being in possession of, and paid 2d per day for, two Good Conduct badges. He elected to extend his Colour service to 12 years, and earned his third Good Conduct badge at the earliest possible date. Rather unusually (soldiers in India tended to remain with their unit until nearing the end of their Term of Engagement, or the battalion returned as a unit) he was sent to the Second Battalion in Ireland and moved with it to Aldershot in 1892. 1st RWF returned Home in 1897, in which year the Second were sent to Crete, and O’Brien was posted to the First in time to join the South African war against the Boers, gaining the Queen’s South Africa medal with four clasps, including Tugela Heights and Relief of Ladysmith. He returned to the United Kingdom, possibly sick or wounded, in 1900 but went back again in 1902 for a year and then came Home with the battalion. He had gained a fourth Good Conduct badge in 1902, was awarded the Long Service and Good Conduct medal, and was one of the few men to receive the Coronation medal of 1911. When the Second Battalion came back from India via Malta in March 1914, he was posted to them, sailed to war on 11th August but sent back to the Third Battalion on 19th September and thence to the Depôt where he stayed until a transfer to the Labour Corps, number 76069, on 30th June 1917 ……. This did not last long, and he was back with his regiment at the Depôt in time for Christmas. Irrepressible, he volunteered for the Army of Occupation in Germany on 8th March 1919 and was finally pensioned off as unfit on 12th March 1920, having served 36 years. He died only a year later, assailed by bronchitis and heart problems.

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It'll probably be impossible to say with any real degree of proof! Anyone who was over 39 and who enlisted as per Dave's original post would have lied about his age or he wouldn't have been allowed in. So the oldest person to enlist would have to be someone who falsified his age and if that person never declared his real age, we'll never know what it was.

Tom

Tom thats what I thought but there are several of these.

post-11859-0-74761000-1325873171.jpg

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It'll probably be impossible to say with any real degree of proof! Anyone who was over 39 and who enlisted as per Dave's original post would have lied about his age or he wouldn't have been allowed in. So the oldest person to enlist would have to be someone who falsified his age and if that person never declared his real age, we'll never know what it was.

Tom

Hmm, I think there may have been some leaway with this, either that or the '39' rule didn't come in until later. My Great Granddad signed up at the outbreak of war at the age of 44, having already served with the Leicstershire Regiment from 1888 - 1902. He was found, after 4 months, to have rheumatoid arthritis and so was discharged but had been given the rank of Sgt within that time despite never achieving more than private during his previous service. They certainly knew of his age and previous service as this was stated in his attestion papers.

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There was a slightly higher age limit for those with previous service I think

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Or those with a specific trade or calling. The one I have posted above, Joseph Folley enlisted into the A.S.C Remounts clearly aged 65.

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1028 Cpl William Bannister, East Surrey Regiment. Enlisted 26th September 1914-discharged 12th March 1917, age 72 years and 2 months. SWB List E/861

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  • 1 month later...

In his 74th year, William Clark, of Shamley Green, near Guildford, answered on Thursday his calling-up notice for the Royal Defence Corps, and preceeded to Felixstowe.

Originally enlisting at the age of 13, he served 15 years in the Royal Welch Fusiliers. At the age of 52 he volunteered for service in teh South African War, and was wounded in the head and leg. Last year, as an object-lesson to shirkers, he volunteered for teh Royal Defence Corps, and served until his wounds troubled him. He has now been called upon to rejoin.

THE TIMES (News in Brief) 03/08/1917

 

A follow-up;

The oldest soldier who served in the late war was William Clark, who is now living at Shamley Green, near Guildford. Three years ago, just 60 years after his enlistment in the Royal Welch Regiment, he joined the Royal Defence Corps, and served at Felixstowe until he was invalided. He is now in his 76th year

THE TIMES (News in Brief) 13/10/1919

And a final reference;

Temporary employment has been found for William Clark, aged 76, of Shamley-green, near Guildford, who served in the Royal Defence Corps for 18 months during the war - the odlest soldier in the army.

THE TIMES (News in Brief) 14/05/1920

From the initial article it sounds more like an exercise in PR , as 'an object-lesson to shirkers'. If this elderly gentleman can sign up, so can you! Obviously it's a non-combantant role though. By the last article of 'being found work' in 1920 whent he war is over and he could simply retire, sounds more a case of giving him work to ensure continued pay from the army roll? I recall reading somewhere that this was often done to avoid becoming a Chelsea Pensioner or because they didn't have enough to live on?

There's another article which mentions the oldest serving soldier in khaki uniform, although again it's a non-combatant role in Worthing;

An Indian Mutiny veteran of 91 years, Colour-Sergeant James Keys, of Worthing, who during the last War had the distinction of being the the oldest serving soldier in khaki, as orderly room clerk at Worthing, celebrated the diamond anniversary of his Wedding yesterday.

THE TIMES (News in Brief) 08/12/1925

If he was 91 in 1925 then he was born in 1834 and would have been 80 in 1914, although it doesn't specify whether he was still serving or re-enlisted to help out.

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A memory passed onto me by my Uncle Elmer Poitras was of being caught out in the trenches in WW 1 with the Cdn Black Watch for being underage, he was shipped back. While going back, he was in the company of another soldier who was caught out for being over age. He apparently had done service in India and Africa in some long back battles. As they went back the old soldier exclaimed to Elmer, well we won't need this any more and turfed his rifle, helmet and web gear off the truck, encouraging Elmer to do the same, but they both held onto their gas masks. Some things were to important to lose. Incidentaly Elmer went on to serve in WW 2 for the full war, over seas. When I was in the army, he was in for a visit, and on seeing my web gear in the basement he immediatly after all those years ( in1977) picked out my gas mask and it was the only piece of equipment he was interested in. He still remembered the whiff ( as he called it) of gas he had in 1917.

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Are you lot even trying? :D

post-6536-0-54672700-1330887649.jpg

The Index of WO97 on FMP shows him as Christopher Walter Horne, born at Coventry about 1833 per his Attestation.

Steve.

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I doubt they had much call for a drummer in the trenches! There was enough of a racket going on overhead! :unsure:

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From the obituary of Capt. Newman Reeve Hughman - The Times, Thursday August 31st 1922

"....At the advanced age of 73, Captain Hughman offered his services on the outbreak of the Great War, throughout which he did effective work at home, and when demobilized in 1920 was said to be the oldest officer in the British Army being 79 years of age. He also set up another "record" for he had seven sons all holding commissions in the war - six in the Middlesex Regiment, two of whom were killed....."

He was born June 15 1841 at Yoxford, Suffolk, enlisted as a Trooper in 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) in 1859 and rose to the rank of Troop S.M. before being discharged medically unfit after 20 years service. He was gazetted Quartermaster in the Middlesex (Duke of Cambridge's Hussars) 1901, honorary Captain and Q.M. 1903, and retired in 1904 with rank of Capt.

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Just as an aside to this, I was doing some general searches on Ancestry today and was amazed the number of times birthdates in the 1850's & 60's popped up.

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No reason the oldest servicemen would have had to enlist for the conflict. The postcard (sorry but have had to crop it to get it to upload) below was sent by my grandfarther (RFA Aldershot 7th Dec 1912) to his brother (20th Hussars York). There is a PS to the postcard which reads: "This old chap has 40 years service, SS to band." Of course, if he'd joined up as a 14 year old boy soldier, as my grandfather did, he would only have been in his mid-fifties at this time.

John

post-25196-0-98961600-1330983852.jpg

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  • 3 years later...

Are you lot even trying? biggrin.gif

attachicon.gifChristopher Horne age 84.jpg

I just stumbled on this old thread, and this old patriot comfortably outlived the war.

He appears to have died in Ashton under Lyne in 1921 - aged 90. Good on him!

BillyH.

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