Minesweeper 'Syringa' at the Dardanelles

[michaeldr]

The stone carving on the Helles Memorial is weathered and unclear on my photograph

The number of this trawler/minesweeper looks like 209 (but pos. 269?)

Can anyone confirm or correct this please

Thanks for your interest and help here

Michael

[sotonmate]

Michael

You probably saw the data on the ST Syringa as a Fleetwood trawler before it was taken over by the RN and then posted to the Med in 1915 with an allocated Adm number of 783. I am guessing that this wasn't it's pennant number as it has little relation to that which you have posted !

Sotonmate

[michaeldr]

Sotonmate,

Yes I saw that, but thanks for the double check.

I am reasonably confident about reading the other numbers and only this one has me puzzled.

[if useful to anyone, then the other 'numbered' vessels are: 293 Achilles, 705 Avon, 362 Beatrice II, 706 Elk, 43 Escallonia, 448 Fentonian, 49 Frascati, 308 G.M., 354 Gwenllian, 324 Koorah, 340 Lock Esk, 341 Prince Palatine, 1043 Renarro, 48 Restrivo, 258 Richmond Castle, 284 Soldier Prince, 318 Star of the Empire, 92 Strathlossie, 102 Strathord, 10 Vidonia, 719 William Allan]

regards

Michael

[Michael Lowrey]

Michael,

I have a list of RN trawler numbers. Syringa (or perhaps Syringa II) was number indeed 269.

Best wishes,

Michael

[michaeldr]

Michael

Many thanks for that

[My first impression of the weathered carving was wrong then ]

As far as I know she became Syringa II at some point (1917?) after the Dardanelles campaign

Thanks again

Michael

[horatio2]

I agree that SYRINGA II was Admiralty No.269. Admiralty No.783 was allocated to TASCONIA and she did not serve in the Dardanelles. I agree with Michael's numbering - just a couple of notes - I believe ACHILLES was ACHILLES II; and VIDONIA is also recorded as JASON (name change at some time?)

[Further rearch shows that JASON (GY.828) and VIDONIA (GY.257) were both Grimsby trawlers and had Admiralty No.10. JASON was hired first in August 1914 but returned 'unsuitable' after a month. VIDONIA was then hired to replace her.]

[michaeldr]

H2,

Many thanks for checking these numbers

This web-site http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/consolship1.htm

has Achilles becoming Achilles II in September 1918,

though how one reconciles that with her sinking three months earlier, I am not sure

edit: I wonder if the late change of name was for record keeping purposes only, when someone remembered that they already had an HMS Achilles

quote: GY.181 Achilles

Built: 1906. Builders: Cochrane & Sons, Selby. Yard No: 382. Launched: Wednesday 22nd August 1906. Completed: 1906. Registered: November 1906. Gross Tons: 225. Nett Tons: 106. Length: 117.2 feet. Beam: 22 feet. Draught: 11.6 feet. Quarterdeck: 66 feet. Forecastle: 18 feet. Official Number: 123592. Original Owners: Consolidated Steam Fishing & Ice Co, Grimsby.

Monday 19th November 1906

The compasses for the Achilles were put aboard today.

Thursday 22nd November 1906

The third new vessel built for the company, Achilles, was expected to dock at Grimsby today.

August 1915

Requisitioned by the Admiralty as a minesweeper. Armament: 1 x 6 pounder gun. Admiralty number: 293.

September 1918

Renamed Achilles II.

Fate: Sank after striking a mine off the Shipwash Light vessel on Wednesday 26th June 1918.

Best regards

Michael

Edited 2 January , 2012 by michaeldr

[Terence Munson]

[if useful to anyone, then the other 'numbered' vessels are: 293 Achilles, 705 Avon, 362 Beatrice II, 706 Elk, 43 Escallonia, 448 Fentonian, 49 Frascati, 308 G.M., 354 Gwenllian, 324 Koorah, 340 Lock Esk, 341 Prince Palatine, 1043 Renarro, 48 Restrivo, 258 Richmond Castle, 284 Soldier Prince, 318 Star of the Empire, 92 Strathlossie, 102 Strathord, 10 Vidonia, 719 William Allan] regards Michael

JASON was registered at Grimsby Sept.1898 - Jun. 1906, she then moved to Swansea and then to North Shields (SN 76) from where she was requisitioned and rejected Aug./Sept. 1914. She was captured and sunk off the Tyne on April 1st 1915 by U 10 (Fritz Stuhr).

Seven more in the list were also Grimsby registered when requisitioned. AVON Adm. No. 708 (GY 340, Jul.1916 AVON II), ELK (GY 1253), ESCALLONIA (GY 631), FENTONIAN (GY 804), FRASCATI (GY 315), RENARRO (GY 1089, 12 casualties when sunk by a mine in the Dardanelles 10th Nov. 1918) and RESTRIVO (GY 265).

KOORAH and PRINCE PALATINE were registered at Grimsby post war.

Cheers, Terry

[michaeldr]

Terry,

Thanks for that further information

…......................................................

The list which I have given previously here is taken from the panels on the Helles Memorial

Lest anyone be misled into thinking that that list is definitive, then yesterday I came across the following:

quote “So rapidly had this auxiliary force grown, that at the beginning of July Admiral de Robeck had under his command 47 trawler mine-sweepers, 31 net-drifters, 20 armed trawlers, 7 fleet-sweepers, and 4 motor patrolboats, of which 3 had come out from England. One of the fleet-sweepers had been equipped for mine-laying.”

[see page 164 of 'The Merchant Navy, Vol. II' (HISTORY OF THE GREAT WAR BASED ON OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS BY DIRECTION OF THE HISTORICAL SECTION OF THE COMMITTEE OF IMPERIAL DEFENCE) by Archibald Hurd, John Murray, London, 1924 – available as a web download]

If this is correct, then there are obviously many more names missing from the Helles Memorial list.

* Does anyone know what the criteria was for a minesweeper/trawler to have its name included on the Helles Memorial?

regards

Michael

Edited 3 January , 2012 by michaeldr