Northern Soul Posted 29 December , 2011 Share Posted 29 December , 2011 This section comes from a photograph of what I believe is the band of the 154th Brigade. So far I have identified King's Own, Loyals, Lancashire Fusiliers, RAMC, King's, and RFA. There are a few Scots soldiers present (which is why I believe it to be 154th Brigade), but only one of them is showing his cap badge. From the Brigade OOB I think it is the badge of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders but I could do with a second opinion. As for the man on the left, I have no idea what his badge is - there are another two men wearing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 29 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2011 .........and the full photo. I can't really tell whether it was taken abroad or in the UK, but would the presence of a band "mascot" in the form of the goat tend to favour the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 This section comes from a photograph of what I believe is the band of the 154th Brigade. So far I have identified King's Own, Loyals, Lancashire Fusiliers, RAMC, King's, and RFA. There are a few Scots soldiers present (which is why I believe it to be 154th Brigade), but only one of them is showing his cap badge. From the Brigade OOB I think it is the badge of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders but I could do with a second opinion. As for the man on the left, I have no idea what his badge is - there are another two men wearing the same. Some Rifles units wore very small bugle horns on a cord boss as their badge, although this was usually the province of officers insignia. Can you show the other two men as well, to see if enlarged images might help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 30 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2011 Four more close-ups. I presume the one with the dark cap badge is in the 6th King's, as I believe they were a rifle battalion. I'm also curious to know what the badge on the sleeve of the Loyals man is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 Looks like a bandsman's trade badge, a styalised lyre/jingling johnnie. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 Four more close-ups. I presume the one with the dark cap badge is in the 6th King's, as I believe they were a rifle battalion. I'm also curious to know what the badge on the sleeve of the Loyals man is? Looking at your pics, the 6th Kings were indeed Rifles with a black bugle horn surmounted by a rose. The Loyals arm badge is, as stated, a bandsman's proficiency badge. Of the other two one appears to have black buttons, which would confirm his badge as some kind of Rifle unit. Unfortunately I cannot make out the other badge and am wondering if it is partially obscured by his cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 This section comes from a photograph of what I believe is the band of the 154th Brigade. So far I have identified King's Own, Loyals, Lancashire Fusiliers, RAMC, King's, and RFA. There are a few Scots soldiers present (which is why I believe it to be 154th Brigade), but only one of them is showing his cap badge. From the Brigade OOB I think it is the badge of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders but I could do with a second opinion. As for the man on the left, I have no idea what his badge is - there are another two men wearing the same. Is it possible that the man on the left and maybe some others are wearing "buttons" in lieu of cap badges and what is misleading us is the light reflecting off them?? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 Is it possible that the man on the left and maybe some others are wearing "buttons" in lieu of cap badges and what is misleading us is the light reflecting off them?? khaki I did consider that khaki, but personally do not think that is the case. The man with black, rifles buttons, is unlikely to have worn a brass GS button in his cap and closer scrutiny does not seem to show a button in the caps (at least to my eyes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 30 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2011 At least that's the arm badge sorted out - one competent/dedicated bandsman amongst them. There's a few with black badges/buttons all 6/King's I assume. I'm struck by the fact that I can only count 3 Scots soldiers on the photo. Is it safe to say that brass bands (predominantly northern England) were not overly popular in Scotland (pipe bands being the norm) and so this would account for the under-representation in what was a Scottish division? Would such a band - at brigade level - have any official status within the military or was it simply a an ad hoc collection of like-minded enthusiasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 At least that's the arm badge sorted out - one competent/dedicated bandsman amongst them. There's a few with black badges/buttons all 6/King's I assume. I'm struck by the fact that I can only count 3 Scots soldiers on the photo. Is it safe to say that brass bands (predominantly northern England) were not overly popular in Scotland (pipe bands being the norm) and so this would account for the under-representation in what was a Scottish division? Would such a band - at brigade level - have any official status within the military or was it simply a an ad hoc collection of like-minded enthusiasts? The 6th King's Man, whose photo you posted, appears to have a cloth bandsman's badge. There were two (three if you include the RA's old version) patterns of badge in use during WW1, the old (enclosed) and the new (in last post), both of which had cloth and gilding metal versions. My understanding is that unlike formally established Regimental bands, Formation (Bde / Div) bands were formed rather like concert parties - to raise morale. As such, individuals who could play an instrument (and who had volunteered) would have been 'detached' from their parent units and held for accounting purposes on a kind of 'black economy', which was a long standing British Army tradition that did not end until the introduction of the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 30 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2011 Another photo from the same source - this time of a football team on the continent. I don't know whether it is of 51st or 55th Division men as it is undated, but it will be one of the two. However, two of the men are wearing that curious small cap badge again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 30 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2011 One has black buttons (implying a rifle battalion) and the other has shiny (brass) buttons. Looking at the two photos I would say that there are at least 3 men common to both. One is the 1st man in Post #4 and the second man in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 30 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2011 I would say the one in the middle is clearly 6/King's; the other is King's Own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 I would say the one in the middle is clearly 6/King's; the other is King's Own. The 6th King's man is the Bandmaster with a Lyre surmounted by a Tudor (King's) crown on both forearms, similar to the badge second left, top row, enclosed. The badges are indeed curious and becoming increasingly intriguing. I wonder if you can get even more of a close up? The man at right has black buttons, which again confirms it is a Rifles unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 I keep looking at the Scottish lad and I keep seeing the Fusiliers badge outline think I need new specs. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2011 Share Posted 30 December , 2011 I keep looking at the Scottish lad and I keep seeing the Fusiliers badge outline think I need new specs. Gary This is the cap badge you see being worn by the bandmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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