Unit identities please.

[MoleCatcher]

Just a quick note to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has helped set me on the road to finding out who these people are.

Once again, thank you all.

Best regards

MoleCatcher.

[FROGSMILE]

Frogsmile,

The cap changed to its current shape with--3593/1921 30-Nov-21 Cap, Service Dress New Pattern, Also reflected in LoC 24802 March 1922 all others obsolete

Joe S

Thanks Joe. You will understand that I am puzzled by that, in that the cap we have been issuing since the 1960s (and probably before) has a curved and not 'spade shaped' (as described by Wainfleet) peak that is far closer in appearance to the caps seen in 1914 and earlier.

This current pattern of cap was / is further cut down by Household Division troops, as you have mentioned, but SASC, MPSC and RMP wore it as issued and without further modification. I am unable at the moment to ascertain when this pattern came in, but it does not appear to be 3593 of 1921/22.

Of course all of this is irrelevant to the cap in post #1, but it would be good to pin this down once and for all if possible.

[FROGSMILE]

This is getting extremely tedious. You are arguing that caps haven't changed in style since the Great War, which is palpably incorrect. Two distinct variants are clearly illustrated in Joe Sweeney's article. One type appears in dateable Great War photos. The other doesn't. If you think the large peak type is Great War vintage, you need to look at some photos. You will not find a single clear wartime photograph of the large, spadeshaped peak and wide chinstrap worn by other ranks, except perhaps occasionally WOs wearing private purchase caps. You will however find plenty of such photos from the 20s and 30s.

Pique? No, as I have explained very clearly, what annoys me is duff information being passed off as authoritative and the lofty dismissal of opinions that clash with your own. Pot and kettle? I have no idea what you're talking about.

I have well and truly had enough of this now and will not be contributing further.

Wainfleet, I can see from Joe's detailed list and specifically the pattern change of 1921/22, that I have been wrong about the caps change in external appearance and you have been right. I am happy to concede this.

Surely this is what debates in this wide ranging subject area are about. Sometimes we are right in our assertions/comments and sometimes we are wrong.

I have no doubt that you will continue to post, as will I, and I look forward to further exchanges on whatever subjects interest us.

[FROGSMILE]

Frogsmile; Thankyou for noting that everyone here is entitled to their opinion, so from someone who usually sits on the sidelines - one of many, I might add - I'd like to make the following points,;

Firstly, It'd be nice to open a post where no one was bickering; Secondly, it'd be nice if it wasn't frogsmile, thirdly, it'd be nice if I could open any post that frogsmile hadn't put his tuppence worth in, as in my opinion, much of it doesn't bear close scrutiny. (Now you can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either, probably rudely). But Frogsmile - if you are right, or wrong - please have the decency to respect other peoples opinions, & let the original posters make their own minds up, & try not to be so downright rude. If you find that impossible, then my advice is don't join in if a particular post/er upsets you. Members I know & speak to are not logging on, or joining in with useful posts as they are getting fed up with getting bawled out, & like it or not old chap, you are at the top of their 'fed up with list' on these threads. - 'Oh no, it's frogsmile at it again'. No - you don't get along with the majority on here - they just go away & don't bother. Sad, but true.

By the way, you are totally, unequivocally, unquestionably wrong about the cap. The evidence has been presented clearly. Partially move towards redemption, & have the good grace to admit it.

ChrisP

Chris, throughout my professional life I have been inculcated with and encouraged to use a direct manner of speech that clearly irritates you and some others here. It is intended to be economic, direct and free from prevarication, or any chance of misunderstanding. As a result it is neither diplomatic nor sensitive. Most people prefer it as it is generally devoid of artifice and avoids confusion, even if it rather grates with some sensibilities.

From what you have said it seems that up until now you and these others have discussed this in some kind of private space, which seems to me utterly pointless when any of you could respond directly by using the perfectly adequate private messaging/email service to voice your perceived grievances with me.

It is a great truism that one cannot please everyone all of the time and you clearly have some fellow aggrieved members. That said, unless there is a veritable army of unseen disaffected, I can only say that going by the PMs and direct responses I do receive, the vast majority are positive. I post most days and to imply that all 'bickering' (as you put it) is down to me overstates your case, as any examination of all my posts would bear out.

Finally, it would only be fair to point out that nobody forces you to read my posts and that if they annoy you that much then surely you are perfectly free to either, bypass them, or simply not open them.

[Joe Sweeney]

Thanks Joe. You will understand that I am puzzled by that, in that the cap we have been issuing since the 1960s (and probably before) has a curved and not 'spade shaped' (as described by Wainfleet) peak that is far closer in appearance to the caps seen in 1914 and earlier. This was / is further cut down by Household Division troops, as you have mentioned, but SASC, MPSC and RMP wore it as issued and, as non-infantry, without further modification. I am unable at the moment to ascertain when this pattern came in, but it does not appear to be 3593 of 1921/22.

You'l have to look in the RACD lefgers for any later pattern changes they go into the 1950's I believe--not particularly interested in post Great War British stuff--I go as far as when pattern changed and/or were made obsolete so I copied all reords till about 1928/9.

Joe Sweeney

[Chris P]

Frogsmile;

Thankyou, for your considered responses. Hopefully, all will be happy now. No hard feelings here.

ChrisP

[FROGSMILE]

You'l have to look in the RACD lefgers for any later pattern changes they go into the 1950's I believe--not particularly interested in post Great War British stuff--I go as far as when pattern changed and/or were made obsolete so I copied all reords till about 1928/9.

Joe Sweeney

Thanks Joe, that makes sense.