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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Dummy Rifle for bayonet drill


Cymro
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Have any members ever seen one of these - They've been described to me as basically the same shape as a Lee Enfield and with a device that retracts back into the barrel after the simulated 'thrust'.

A friend has just found such an item stamped 1918 and I wondered if any of the pals had seen one before?

Thanks a lot

Jonathan

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I have often seen for sale at fairs, they are not the most desirable of weapons but still a bit of history. Still I have never seen one with the practice bayonet attached, even the retractable ones or the ones marked DP..drill purpose.

Tom.

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They aren't particularly rare, as I've seen a number of these over the years - including one today at the Cobbaton Combat Collection!

Apparently, according to one dealer selling one on Ebay a little while ago, this specific type of bayonet training rifle was introduced pre-WW1, and continued to be used until about 1937, when it was phased out (how true this is I don't know, but it fits with all the dated examples I've seen).

"A friend has just found such an item stamped 1918" - did he buy it? They can usually sell for £100+ in good condition, but if you can find one made by Wilkinson you are VERY lucky - they are beautiful quality when compared to any other makers.

These are, of course completely different to the huge number of officially issued and home made training rifles for drill purposes in both WW1 and WW2.

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There were various types the most common encountered are the MK X Musket Fencing as they were called.

Mk IX 1912 converted Mk1* Lee-Metford Rifle

Mk X 1913

Mk X No's 1 & 2 1915

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Does it look like this or is this the real thing?

Kate

post-23-1090974366.jpg

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Close-up of Rifle/Bayonet. But not necessarily any clearer.

Kate

post-23-1090975167.jpg

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Many thanks to you all - I seem to have tapped into a rich seam of knowledge here! Basically, a friend of mine says he has such a rifle dated 1918 (there may be other marks but Idont' know what they are yet). He described it as having a blunted (he described it as having a knob on the end) bayonet which slid back into the barrel. He has this and a trench club of the 'cosh' variety ie. with a sort of spring in the middle. I don't know much at all about these areas of collecting and so I was wondering a) what I should look for and B) what (roughly) they would be worth.

Many thanks again to you all

J

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Sandyford - The rifle in the photo is live and of pre-WW1 manufacture- not a simulated rifle for "safe" bayonet training.

Cymro - like I said, nice condition examples usually go for £100+, more for earlier dated examples (I've never seen a MkIX, only MkX's), even more if you can find an example by Wilkinsons or other high quality makers, less the later the date is.

Now to raise another question - has anyone seen in person a set of the fencing-type armour that was supposed to be worn when using the plunger-type bayonet training rifle?

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The one I was thinking of had a knob on the end of the "bayonet" and retracted into the main body . Also it looked nothing like a rifle. In the picture both the aggressor and man lying down have the weapon I was thinking of. 79/4/Bgt

Stuart

post-23-1091707077.jpg

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I have 3 such rifles one with the bayonet the other 2 without. The one I have with the bayonet is marked 1903 London Rifles and is the same as in the photo. I am selling them at £120 with the bayonet & £80 without. If you need any further help, I will try & get time to take a photo of them.

Cheers John

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Guest John Sukey

The Martini-Henry fencing musket also used a spring loaded plunger. I should think that these soldiered on to the great war mainly because of the rapid expansion of the army and the need for training arms. Hopefuly these will come on the market soon as a large number were purchased from Nepal when they cleaned out the Armoury.

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  • 1 year later...

Has anyone come across any of these training rifles of late?

I am having a dummy rifle made up on basic MkIII pattern - not the bayonet type, just a simple wooden training rifle for drill purpose (which could pass for WWI and II). I shall let you know how it turns out.

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