Old army boot bonfire

[geraint]

A local newspaper yesterday carried a story regarding the Gorddinan Pass towards Blaenau Ffestiniog on the A470. The pass also known as the Crimean Pass due to an old POW camp there, was the location for a massive bonfire of army boots gathered from both battlefield dead, and from demobed men during 1918. They were bought there using the slate quarries rail network, and stored in the slate caverns for sorting. Those unfit for use were then burnt on the Gorddinan Pass. The stain from the burnt boots bonfire is still visible today, as well as thousands of metalic boot pieces. Local info says that the bonfire burnt for weeks.

Sureley such an operation would have left a long paper trail in Army admin.

Has anyone any further information on this?

[centurion]

The disposal of army boots would have come under the control of The Disposal Board which came into existence as of Jan 1 1919 under the auspices of the Ministry of Munitions. In 1921 it became the Disposal and Liquidation Commission. TNA appear to have most of their surviving paperwork. Boots were but a small part of their work but they seem to have exercised the minds of MPs - see the series of questions in this Hansard report http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1919/nov/26/military-boots Another question directed to Winston Churchill as to whether discharged troops would be allowed to keep their boots elicits his shortest answer in The House "No".

[geraint]

Thanks for that excellent link Centurion. I suppose that taking them to rural North wales made more sense than burning them in White City stadium London!

[Hywyn]

Geraint

I remember this story about a mound of hobnail boots. It's location if I remember correctly is as follows

On Google map take A470 out of Blaenau. Just after Llyn Fridd Bwlch there's a lay by on the left. Switch to Google Street and look at the mound opposite, just through the gate and near the Gwynedd sign. I'm not hundred percent if that is it but it's certainly in that area. Kev O'Mara might know.

Hywyn

edit: You have to zoom in a bit to spot the lay by on the map

[daggers]

QUOTE: as well as thousands of metallic boot pieces...

Why not advertise this, to distract the thieves from memorials, churches, etc?

D

[centurion]

QUOTE: as well as thousands of metallic boot pieces...

Why not advertise this, to distract the thieves from memorials, churches, etc?

D

I didn't know hobnails were made out of bronze, brass or lead.

[NigelS]

A search of The Times post '18 for 'Army Boots' gives several news items & disposal adverts relating to surplus boots: This from The Times of March 10th '19

another extract from Hansard of May 27th '19 Click indicates that their storage caused the government a bit of embarrasment and the usual Parliamentary banter with the 'Order of the Boot' being suggested for the officer responsible.

NigelS

[geraint]

Thanks Nigel. The sums of money and logistics is quite impressive!

Of the Depots mentioned - none are within easy reach of Ffestiniog. Why bring them there to burn?

[themonsstar]

I was doing a mountain leaders course a long time ago, and we had come down off the high ground and slept in one of the old slate mines in the area, in the morning we made our way to wear this scorch mark was, and the instructor told us it had been caused when a group of disgruntled Crimean War veterans were protesting about something or other and burnt all their kit.

Whether it was the Crimean War veterans, or surplus equipment being burnt in the early 1920s,should be easily enough to research.

[geraint]

Another story put about locally to American troops training for D-Day, is that they were all left foot boots produced by American factories under Lend- Lease, and had coddled the orders, and had to be burnt here.

The scorched area is large - far larger than the remains of a fire created by a few hundred Crimean soldiers or prisoners; and is the remains of hundreds of thousands of boots!

[centurion]

Thanks Nigel. The sums of money and logistics is quite impressive!

Of the Depots mentioned - none are within easy reach of Ffestiniog. Why bring them there to burn?

They didn't - they brought them to sort out and they probably needed a lot of storage space and somewhere connected to the rail network. As well as recycling boots within Britain they also supplied military forces that Britain supported with boots. For example when Rezā Shāh Pahlavi staged his coup in Tehran Britain shod his troops. Boots went off to parts of the Baltic coast and other places in the world where there were troubles and Britain was supporting one side or the other. Army boots may seem an odd instrument of imperial power but even the best armed soldiers are going nowhere fast without decent footwear.

Only the boots unsuitable for re use would be burned and whilst this must have been a lot of boots it would only the a tithe of the total number at Ffestiniog.

[pgardiner1418]

It’s funny the way folklore develops with a grain of truth i.e. there was a fire that had a military connection.

The story that was told to me was that a number of Welsh battalions had decided that they weren’t going to the front and burned all their kit thus making them a non effective fighting unit, this rebellion was of course covered up by the Government and that’s why the only evidence is the scorched earth.

All the best,

Paul.

[Hywyn]

The story that was told to me was that a number of Welsh battalions had decided that they weren’t going to the front and burned all their kit thus making them a non effective fighting unit, this rebellion was of course covered up by the Government and that’s why the only evidence is the scorched earth.

Paul.

We are rather proud of any rebellions Paul and a cover up wouldn't last long before the deed was given the full on poetic and musical folklore treatment and sung about to this day.

Hywyn

[centurion]

It’s funny the way folklore develops with a grain of truth i.e. there was a fire that had a military connection.

The story that was told to me was that a number of Welsh battalions had decided that they weren’t going to the front and burned all their kit thus making them a non effective fighting unit, this rebellion was of course covered up by the Government and that’s why the only evidence is the scorched earth.

All the best,

Paul.

Ah Wales land of mountains, mists and myths. I've said many times that myths are like pearls, there is a little tiny bit of gritty truth in there somewhere well hidden by all the glitter. Isn't it amazing how many things, including interstellar travellers. governments manage to cover up according to myths and conspiracy theories?

[pgardiner1418]

Hywyn,

Agreed and no doubt Pwyll and Math fab Mathonwy had some doing with the whole business!

All the best,

Paul.

[geraint]

And of course Lloyd George the Welsh Wizzard who immediately locked them up, bare-footed in a slate cavern where they fell asleep and await their country's call to this day

[centurion]

And of course Lloyd George the Welsh Wizzard who immediately locked them up, bare-footed in a slate cavern where they fell asleep and await their country's call to this day

"He did not intend to be found wanting at his country's call, he intended not to be ---ing found at all"

[pgardiner1418]

Had a day out in Wales today and decided to visit the "Boot Fire" site and was quite amazed at what remains. The shapes you can see are heel and toe tips.

All the best,

Paul.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Incredible survivor.

[themonsstar]

Cheers for the pic Paul

Roy

[MikeyH]

The majority of the boots worn by the British Army in both the Great War and World War 2, would of course have been made in Northamptonshire. A large proportion of those would have been made here in Daventry at Stead and Simpsons. The old factory building, by then empty, suffered it's own Viking Funeral when it burned down one night a few years ago. The site is now occupied by, wouldn't you know it, a Tesco Supermarket.

Mike.

[geraint]

Isn't that a brilliant photo! almost a hundred years later and the ground still scorched!

[Khaki]

I have been to numerous burn sites up to 100 years old and generally there is regrowth, I am not a chemist, but could the sterile nature of the ground be caused by the tannin leaching out of the boots as they were consumed??

khaki

[pgardiner1418]

Geraint,

Not only scorched but considerable in size, I should think 40 to 50 feet across with the top of the mound being about 2 to 3 feet above what would be the ground level at that point.

Khaki,

There must be something chemical as the only growth which is not evident in the picture is a thin moss like stuff that only exists in places and seem to be just clinging on

Paul.

[clive_hughes]

Remarkable - never come across this before! By the way, I was told that the Crimea Pass was named after a public house "The Crimea", not POW camp. Wonder which is the correct story there.

Clive