leofric Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 I have come into the possession of a number of old family photo's and many are uniformed men from the Great War. Most have distinguishing features such as insignia but this unknown ancestor does not display any clues at all, except that the picture was taken at the 'Elite Studio, Plymouth", but no name or date. I'm not even sure if it was taken between 1914-18 (could it be earlier?). I just wanted to know what the real experts could glean from this image and what clues they could spot that my untrained eye would not see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 I would have bet on WW1, but others with more knowledge may disagree? Unfortunately, you may never know who he is, due to a total lack of clues!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 (edited) WWI - if I had to bet I would say between late 1914 and early 1917. The only basis for this is that he is wearing the simplified 1914 Pattern service dress jacket. So not before 1914 and, playing the odds (guessing) these seem to become far less common in pictures later in the war - hence my guess. Otherwise unfortunately anonymous. Perhaps photograher location might narrow it down for you based on residence? Chris Edited 13 December , 2011 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 What units were based in Plymouth? Royal Marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 I have come into the possession of a number of old family photo's and many are uniformed men from the Great War. Most have distinguishing features such as insignia but this unknown ancestor does not display any clues at all, except that the picture was taken at the 'Elite Studio, Plymouth", but no name or date. I'm not even sure if it was taken between 1914-18 (could it be earlier?). I just wanted to know what the real experts could glean from this image and what clues they could spot that my untrained eye would not see. A facial comparison with identified family images of that period may assist in determining whether he is a family member or not. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 I agree reasoning and dating. Beyond that, we might as well discuss the date and maker of the aspidistra stand, Doric column, theatrical prop or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 Judging by his waistline, probably RASC..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom compton Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 Hello. Uniform looks brand new. Have you asked around your family who was in the great war. If you have other photo's and you know who they are, see if he looks like one of them.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 December , 2011 Share Posted 13 December , 2011 Judging by his waistline, probably RASC..... No chance! Not royalled until after war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 14 December , 2011 Share Posted 14 December , 2011 He is newly joined and from his age, healthy look, confidence, size and decent haircut he had a trade or calling. The uniform is relatively newly issued, he has put in creases in legs and arms but look at the shoulders, he hasn't yet got the knack of pressing difficult areas or of fixing his puttees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 14 December , 2011 Share Posted 14 December , 2011 And you can probably eliminate all the Rifle Regiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 14 December , 2011 Share Posted 14 December , 2011 I agree reasoning and dating. Beyond that, we might as well discuss the date and maker of the aspidistra stand, Doric column, theatrical prop or whatever. Definitely Osbourne and Mellish, theatrical prop makers, 117-119 Drury Lane. London. WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 14 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2011 So we are looking at a new recruit who was probably undergoing training in the Plymouth area prior to 1917. Although I'll probably never find out who he is, that does narrow things down a bit. He's obviously not a young man but I find it difficult to judge age in old pictures. People always looked old ahead of their time (even before witnessing the horrors of war). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 December , 2011 Share Posted 14 December , 2011 Leofric It could equally be that he lived in Plymouth and was home on leave when the photograph was taken. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 December , 2011 Share Posted 16 December , 2011 So we are looking at a new recruit who was probably undergoing training in the Plymouth area prior to 1917. Although I'll probably never find out who he is, that does narrow things down a bit. He's obviously not a young man but I find it difficult to judge age in old pictures. People always looked old ahead of their time (even before witnessing the horrors of war). [/qu Best guess on age would be 34/35 years. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 18 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2011 Leofric It could equally be that he lived in Plymouth and was home on leave when the photograph was taken. TR Unlikely to be living in Plymouth as all of my family were well rooted in Nottingham at the time. I wonder if any Midland Regiments undertook their basic training in the Plymouth area (although I do understand that he could have been posted to any Regiment) ? Can anyone tell me the upper age limit of conscription at this time as I guess if he is an older soldier he is more likely to have volunteered - which might place it nearer the beginning of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 18 December , 2011 Share Posted 18 December , 2011 What units were based in Plymouth? Royal Marines? Just a thought, I wonder if he was RND infantry, maybe that would account for thoughts of age, appearance, size and Plymouth. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 18 December , 2011 Share Posted 18 December , 2011 Don't forget the Royal Garrison Artillery - coastal-based RGA companies certainly provided men for active service overseas. 107 Siege Company at Fort Efford in Plymouth, for example, provided the basis for 5 and 6 Siege Batteries in August 1914. This chap looks like he could have managed lugging a few 6" howitzer shells! As a complete 'stab in the dark', would the names Oscar Vincent Smith, Francis Truman Burnie, or Percy Harold Craggs have any significance wrt your family? These three men all had Nottinghamshire roots and served at one time with 5 Siege Battery; all arrived in France on the battery strength (embarking from Plymouth) in September 1914. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 December , 2011 Share Posted 18 December , 2011 Don't forget the Royal Garrison Artillery - coastal-based RGA companies certainly provided men for active service overseas. 107 Siege Company at Fort Efford in Plymouth, for example, provided the basis for 5 and 6 Siege Batteries in August 1914. This chap looks like he could have managed lugging 6" howitzer shells! I agree that he has the stature for RGA, but I think he would be more likely to have shoulder titles and a lanyard if he were. The gunners were (and still are) sticklers for insignia even for a new recruit. For that reason the possibility of RND seems stronger to me, although it is all just guesswork really with so little to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 19 December , 2011 Share Posted 19 December , 2011 Or he could be a musical hall actor photographed for one of his 'show cards'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 19 December , 2011 Share Posted 19 December , 2011 I agree that he has the stature for RGA, but I think he would be more likely to have shoulder titles and a lanyard if he were. The gunners were (and still are) sticklers for insignia even for a new recruit. For that reason the possibility of RND seems stronger to me, although it is all just guesswork really with so little to go on. Yes, I concur, though strangely I've come across a number of photos of RGA men where, for whatever reason, they are not wearing their lanyards. Here's a photo of a 107 Siege Company man, taken shortly before the war, minus lanyard (I'm guessing the BSM would not have been happy!). The chap in the photo (kindly provided by forum member jagins) is Gunner 27510 Alfred Ince, who was killed in action on 26th October 1914, and was the first recorded fatality of 5 Siege Battery. But, as you say, without anything else to go on it's all guesswork! Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leofric Posted 6 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2012 I may have a lead on the identity of this soldier but need some more help to verify. I believe he is Harry Lee, 85077 Dvr D Bty 116 BDE RFA and I attach his Medal Card that shows he was in France by May 1915 - thanks to Woody for putting me on the scent. Is anyone able to place this unit in or near Plymouth before this date please (fingers crossed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 6 January , 2012 Share Posted 6 January , 2012 Steve, Ince actually does have a lanyard, just not a white one Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 6 January , 2012 Share Posted 6 January , 2012 Steve, Ince actually does have a lanyard, just not a white one Rgds Paul Good eyesight Paul! You are, of course, quite right. I'm just far too used to seeing a pale / white lanyard appearing in sharp contrast to the uniform! (Is there significance in a darker-coloured lanyard?) All the best Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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