another example of the madness of ebay

[micks]

The following has just sold on ebay for three hundred

and fifty pounds.

Item number deleted to avoid direct identification Keith

One Australian cap badge found on a pilgrimage to

Gallipoli in 1956.

micks

[David B]

Nothing sells better than applying a good tale to the article.

[Pavster1980]

I was watching that just out of curiosity, unbelievable.

Rich

[rksimpson]

That s good example of knowing your prices and setting alimit you dont exceed!

regards

Robert

[Tom W.]

That s good example of knowing your prices and setting alimit you dont exceed!

EBay is a madhouse now. I budgeted an insane price for this photo of a flamethrower pioneer of Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr), and I got it for 99¢, the opening bid. It's one of the best photos in my collection. I have no idea why nobody else bid on it. I think the photo the dealer used was too small. I knew what it was, though, and braced myself for a storm that never came.

[micks]

A great photo

It shows that there are still deals to be had.

As a collector myself I still use ebay but I just

can,t compete with some of these bids.

Last June while on a trip to Gallipoli I had the great

fortune to also find a Australian cap badge in unbelievable

condition with the pin included.

The temptation was too great and I did pick it up and bring

it home.

I wouldn,t sell mine for five thousand pounds so I do understand

as a Australian the attraction to such a historical find.

Micks

[Chris_Baker]

Just a warning to forum members. Not a dig at you Micks but I would hate to think that anyone here would get into what could be rather serious trouble. Be aware that anyone found guilty of stealing historical artefacts from Turkey can be subject to a significant fine or jail sentence. Battlefield debris falls within the scope of the law.

[micks]

Chris

Your comment is taken on board.

The law is the law.

In the ideal world all should be able

to walk onto a track or visit a museum and view

these artifacts.

Unfortunately things have changed drastically

in Gallipoli over the past few years.

On my last visit I noticed much of the area

from Plugges Plateau to Quinns Post to Bolton,s

Ridge had been turned over with medal detectors.

Most of what is visable on the surface now is a

result of these diggings.

Anyway thats for another topic.

Micks

[trajan]

Micks, I don't blame you for what you did. Quite understandable. However, Chris' point re: Turkish law concerning antiquities is spot on the ball. What is less well known is that the same law (a 'Heritage' law if I remember rightly) also applies to picking ANY wild flowers, removing ANY geological specimens, etc.. Turkey went over the board on this one! OK, the law is unevenly applied - unless you are a 'yabanci' (= foreigner), when you can be certain that it will be applied.

Be that as it may, I can well imagine that Gallipoli is being ravaged by metal detector users (using a metal detector is also against the law - unless you get an official excavation permit for a specific site and do you work with a government inspector to hand!). Even though I have only been following Turkish internet sales for bayonets for a few months I have certainly noticed more and more relic condition and allegedly (and quite probably) 'Cannakale savas sugusu' (= Gallipoli battle bayonets) appearing for sale.

Trajan

PS: Tom W, I guess that you ID'd that photo on the basis of the exceptionaly rarely seen 'kleine handeflamengewurfer' the man holds in his right hand? Or was there something else??!! I (and I suspect others) am awaiting an explanation/explication!

[SiegeGunner]

PS: Tom W, I guess that you ID'd that photo on the basis of the exceptionaly rarely seen 'kleine handeflamengewurfer' the man holds in his right hand? Or was there something else??!! I (and I suspect others) am awaiting an explanation/explication!

The Death's Head on his left sleeve ...?

[Tom W.]

PS: Tom W, I guess that you ID'd that photo on the basis of the exceptionaly rarely seen 'kleine handeflamengewurfer' the man holds in his right hand? Or was there something else??!! I (and I suspect others) am awaiting an explanation/explication!

The death's-head badge on the sleeve is worn directly below the left elbow, the position worn by the men of Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) to differentiate them from the men of the Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment. "Regular" flamethrower pioneers wore their badge on the cuff. The seller is one of those who posts a hundred photos at a time, each starting for .99¢, with the lowest-possible resolution photo, and I could see the leather-reinforced trousers and a tiny dot below the left elbow. I figured others would see it, too, but they didn't.

Here's a clearer representation of the position. This fellow was photographed on the left as a member of Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) and on the right after he was transferred into the Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment. You can see that he moved his sleeve badge from below his elbow to his cuff after his transfer.

The Death's Head on his left sleeve ...?

Yes indeed.

[wainfleet]

Unbelievable that this price was paid for such an item. Don't wish to get into legal territory here but it is a fact that this dealer sold a Lincoln Tribute Medal on Ebay which was engraved to a man who turned out to be a VC winner. He was killed in the war. Such medals were only given to survivors.

Definitely best not to get into that kind of legal territory on this, or any other, thread, however tempting it may be. And believe me, I understand the temptation. It might well be that, if legal proceedings were to ensue, one would feel confident not merely of putting up a convincing defence, but of turning the tables on the accuser to the extent that they greatly regretted not keeping quiet. But it is the GWF Admin team who have to handle the flak in the first instance, and that's absolutely not fair on them. And if it went beyond that, how many of us here would actually feel strongly enough about the issue to devote a sizeable chunk of their lives to it? Because the reality is that that's what would be required should anything serious develop. If anyone here feels that way inclined, they should take a deep breath and then, by all means, take action on their own account - Off Forum.

[keithmroberts]

Could I just add to Wainfleet's helpful post. References to specific items, or individuals, especially dealers could lead to legal action being taken. I have removed the eBay item number from the original post to avoid identification of the seller. Please tread carefully here at all times. Even defending a fair criticism of an item/dealer could do more than put the forum out of business; the poster could find themselves facing legal action. Some dealers are very quick to defend their reputations.

I have done this rather than edit the main content of the thread, as there are clearly lessons for the unwary.

Keith

[Tom W.]

I do want to make a criticism of eBay that's been burning my grits for a long time: Dealers are now putting keywords into the descriptions or even titles of their items that have nothing whatsoever to do with the item being sold. It started out on eBay Germany. Every other dealer inserted Sturmtrupp, Flammenwerfer, Stosstrupp, Panzer, and other words that describe highly sought-after items in the descriptions of photos that show two unarmed, middle-aged soldiers sitting at a card table smoking cigars. I collect flamethrower photos, so putting Flammenwerfer in the search box returned 800 results, and sometimes none of them had anything to do with flamethrowers.

EBay Italy is the worst. Putting Lanicafiamme in the search box will give you airplanes, caps, boots, toy trains--anything but flamethrowers.

Now American eBay dealers are doing it. As a result, I'm buying fewer items on eBay, not more. Apparently the logic behind this fraud is that if I'm looking for a flamethrower photo, I'll land on an undated picture of eight unidentified infantrymen with no weapons or equipment posing with their arms hanging at their sides, and I'll say, "Holy schlamoly! I've got to have this! Thanks, Mr. Dealer, for calling it to my attention!"

EBay madness indeed.

Rant concluded. Thank you for your time.

[Tom Morgan]

Could I just add to Wainfleet's helpful post. References to specific items, or individuals, especially dealers could lead to legal action being taken. I have removed the eBay item number from the original post to avoid identification of the seller. Please tread carefully here at all times. Even defending a fair criticism of an item/dealer could do more than put the forum out of business; the poster could find themselves facing legal action. Some dealers are very quick to defend their reputations.

I have done this rather than edit the main content of the thread, as there are clearly lessons for the unwary.

Keith

This seems to me to be going about things the wrong way. Unfortunately, the seller has already been identified here on the forum. This is a simple matter of fact and record. If further comments could pose a threat to the future of the forum, then the responsible thing to do would be to remove the risky post(s).

Tom

[wainfleet]

No opinions offered-just facts

And no personal slight intended. But Britain's libel laws (supposedly being reformed, though at a painfully slow pace) are such that even the stating of facts can be actionable if inferences arising from them are perceived as damaging to someone's business. The onus is on the person stating the facts to prove the validity of those inferences, ie. the libel plaintiff is automatically presumed innocent. That's a simplification but broadly correct. Hence the need to be prepared to give a substantial amount of time and effort, even for what might look on the surface like an open and shut case.

The Justice Department is to publish a new Defamation Bill this coming January. Things may be very different if this makes it through Parliament. More information here.