Captain Dave Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Last year I brought this Berthier rifle off a chap who did not know why he even had it in the first place. I took it as it was ugly, and I thought it might be WW1. Well since then after trawling through web sites and asking gun nuts, I havent come any closer to establishing when it may have been made. (It has been rechambered in the 30's, thats about all I definatly know.) These things are rare down here and as a result, collective knowledge is lacking. Are there any other web sites or points on the rifle that I should look at so I can date the thing and look knowledgeable when people ask me what the big rifle is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 24 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Aaaand another view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 This is the place to post your questions, Tell them everything about the rifle, calibre, all markings etc. http://www.antiqueguns.com/pushpin/src/bbs...5DDF::I::000005 Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 A couple more for information:- REME Museum They have a weapons section. I also emailed Leeds Armouries with a query about an experimental muzzle loader and received good service. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Go to - www.gunboards.com - open up MESSAGE BOARDS on the left side and scroll down to FRENCH FIREARM BOARD , you will probably have to register but that is no big deal , post your pics and they will help . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 As an extra , I think you will find there lots NZ & Oz members . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 24 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2004 I'm still looking, but I am coming to the conclusion that it may be a hybrid of a M07/15 (straight bolt) and a M1916. (remainder) I did read somewhere that the M07/15 model was updated with a 5 round magazine, but have no way of knowing if this was one of them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Capt. dave, Looks like a standard Mle. 1916 to me. Was it rechambered to 7.5mm in the 30's? Mle. 16's had 5 rd magazine, hand guards and a straight bolt. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 25 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2004 Yeah, it's been stamped as having been rechambered in the 30's. I just would like to know if there is anyway to date it's construction at all? I've trawled through the web sites, and they have lots of interesting info, but not a lot of concrete stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassuy Posted 25 July , 2004 Share Posted 25 July , 2004 As Joe Sweeney noted, it appears to be a standard Mle. 16--it should say as such on the left side of the receiver. Many, many Mle. 07/15's were upgraded to Mle. 16 standards, so it may have those markings instead. Also, I believe that receiver production of 07/15's was ahead of actual rifle completion, so they simply used the 07/15 marked receivers on Mle.16 rifles. What is the ammunition upgrade? If it has a large letter N on the top of the receiver, it is chambered for 8mm Balle N, which is heavy duty French machinegun ammo. If it has no such marking, it is probably still chambered for 8mm Balle D, WWI rifle ammo. If it does not have the N mark, under no circumstances shoot it with current French 8mm Lebel ammunition, which is virtually all Balle N. Vanishingly few Berthiers were converted to 7.5mm, so if it is one of those, you have a real collector's piece (actually you do anyway, it looks to be in very nice shape!) Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassuy Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 I had forgotten to mention that there will be a barrel code, serial number, and year of manufacture on the barrel, near the receiver. Typical markings will be something like MAP (or MAC, MAP) which is the manufacturers code; Q123456 which will be the serial number; 1917 which is the year. This is just an example of course. The French did not date the receiver, just the barrel, so determining exact receiver date is difficult. You'll have to remove the handguard to view the markings. Then go to www.gunboards.com/forums/ , and then click on the French firearms forum. At the top will be several sticky notes that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about what those markings on your rifle are. One of them deals specifically with Berthier modifications. Hope this helps. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 28 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2004 Thank you, that is exactly the type of information I was after. My weekend project will be uncovering this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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