SteveMarsdin Posted 7 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2012 Good evening all, I've now had chance to read large sections of the book and, as I've been using it extensively (and other sources) in this thread http://1914-1918.inv...1, I thought I'd post some additional observations. I have finished the introductory chapters, covering the build up to the 22 August, and have read the sections on the battles south of Longwy, plus the actions at Nevraumont and Neufchateau. Although the book examines each facet from both sides it is particularly strong when examining the French perspective. In the early part this ranges from the "interesting fact", such as the history of the "pantalons rouge" (although originally from a natural dye from garance, the colour was subsequently obtained from a german manufactured chemical dye !) to extensive details of the events leading up to 22 August, such as the use and interpretation of reconnaissance (a fraction of which I have transcribed in the "reconnaisance" thread) It is an excellent counterpoint to Terence Zuber's "Ardennes" book, as although both describe the same large-scale French defeat and withdrawal from the battlefield (and Belgium) that day or over the next few, with Terence Zuber's book you could be foregiven for thinking the German army was unbeatable, winning fight after fight "just as on the training ground", with Jean-Claude Delhez' book there are chinks in that air of invincibilty which, even allowing for the acknowledged superiority of the training of the German soldier, allow you to see that, with some improvement in the French performance, that that same German army could be beaten not three weeks later on the Marne. I am less familiar with the fighting of 22 August in France than in Belgium so the respective sections on that area were of particular interest to me. Whereas Terence Zuber condenses the fighting south of Longwy into one chapter, Jean-Claude Delhez describes it in four (Mercy-le-Haut, Ville-au-Montois, Doncourt and Cutry) plus a chapter on Sarrail's 6eCA on the day's preceding the 22nd. Ville-au-Montois was one of the few encounters that day where the Germans (4,200) lost more than the French (3,100) but interestingly only 10% were down to French infantry fire, the rest down to their 75s, who for once had found excellent firing positions. At Doncourt again the balance was in favour of the French (2,150:1,300) but this time the vast majority of German casualties were due to infantry fire, mainly caused by the French defending in the woods as the Germans attacked. Such ratios were of course the exception, evidenced by the French retreat but the book does seem to me to be more balanced in its own right and certainly balances "Ardennes 1914". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 8 January , 2012 Share Posted 8 January , 2012 I'm almost as far on as Steve, and though I haven't read Zuber would agree with him that Delhez' book is very detailed and clearly extremely well researched, and makes me want to take a trip to the area to see it closer up. At 650 pages it will take a time to get through if your French is only basic, as the style is somewhat flowery. The maps could be better -- I'm resorting to Google Earth for an overview of the operations, only to find that interesting looking spots at first sight in fact are bits of the Maginot Line! This is Volume 1, and I'm not quite certain what will be in Volume 2, as it seems pretty complete to me, but I'm learning a lot. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 8 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2012 The maps could be better -- I'm resorting to Google Earth for an overview of the operations Martin B That's my main criticism so far too but don't let that put anyone off. The area of the fighting hasn't subtantially changed in 100 years and, although I have many maps of the area (too many, my wife would say !), it is as easy to follow the battle on Google Earth. There has been some ribbon-development (particularly in Belgium) and the edges of the great forests either side of the Semois may have ebbed and flowed over the years but unlike with the forestation at Verdun, the geographical nuances and their impact on the fighting can be still be easily identified. For example the plateau where Ville-au-Montois and Fillieres are situated is still edged by forests today and the course of the fighting there in 1914 can still be followed (courtesy of Google Earth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 8 January , 2012 Share Posted 8 January , 2012 Thanks for the updates, I am attracted to this book but I wonder would my A level French be good enough. It's hard enough to read battles in English so I don't want to be disappointed-if it's hard going I will wait for the English translation. Best/Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 8 January , 2012 Share Posted 8 January , 2012 Thanks for the updates, I am attracted to this book but I wonder would my A level French be good enough. It's hard enough to read battles in English so I don't want to be disappointed-if it's hard going I will wait for the English translation. Best/Liam You might wait a long time. It's privately published and I can't see an English publisher jumping on it as a potential best seller. It's a very interesting book, and if you stick with it you'll find your French has improved quite a bit. Invest in a good dictionary though cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 8 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2012 Hi Liam, To endorse what Martin said, it is to my eternal amazement and to his great credit, that Terence Zuber got his Battle of the Frontiers book published. It is not a popular subject in the languages of the two main protagonists let alone in the English speaking world. Having a connection to the area I find it a fascinating subject and Jean-Claude's book treats it in an extremely thorough manner so even if you only understand basic French it is perhaps worth trying (again as Martin says, assisted by a good dictionary). After the introductory chapters, the chapters on the constituent battles can be read individually, each having a concluding summary at the end. There is then a three chapter critique at the finish of the book, which I assume Jean-Claude will develop further in his second volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 6 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2012 Goood evening All, Whilst visiting the August 1914 battlefields south and south-west of Longwy, I realised I hadn’t posted a final review of Jean-Claude Delhez’ book. I have already posted some interim opinions, so these are my thoughts having completed volume one (volume two should be out later this year, dealing more fully with the aftermath) I make no apologies for comparisons and references toTerence Zuber’s “Ardennes” book: both correctly identify that these wereencounter battles, that there was little evidence of the French “offensive áoutrance”, few massed bayonet charges against German machine guns; the German infantry were better trained etc.Indeed there is even some similarity in the way his book has been received onthe francophone forum, to how Zuber’s book on Mons was received on the GWF ! Where they are different is this book is more balanced,drawing more equally on French and German sources. Each of the fifteen battlesthat Jean-Claude Delhez identifies as making up the Battle(s) of the Frontierson the French 3rd and 4th Army sectors develops in aslightly different way and although the end result is a French retreat acrossthe whole front (due to their inter-linking nature), the performance of theindividual French units (and their commanders)varies considerably. The importance of aerial reconnaissance, albeit in itsinfancy, is brought home. The identification of units of French XII Corps byGerman cavalry, in the Semois valley, on 21 August helped persuade Wurttemberg(German 4th Army) to send troops south to fill the gap created whenKnobelsdorf/Kronprinz Wilhem(German 5th Army) attacked south but itwas aerial reconnaissance that alerted him to the dangers posed by columns of 5French divisions, further to the west, advancing NNE on his right flank,allowing him to take corrective action. Much is made in some accounts of the French over-reliance ontheir 75s and the German’s better range of types of artillery but in reality itwas predominantly 77s v 75s. The German superiority was in finding firingpositions and being prepared to manhandle their guns into position if necessary(such as at Rossignol and north of Bertrix). The French had 1,292 pieces, theGermans 1,355 but of the French 450 didn’t fire at all that day. In percentageterms, the French didn’t use 40% at all and used 30% only a little; on theGerman side, they didn’t use 6% at all and used 14% only a little – a tremendousadvantage. This is found in the detailed analysis contained in the threefinal chapters, which review the performance of the two sides and the causes ofthe French defeats; themes, along with the aftermath, that will be developed involume two. Apart from the reasons already mentioned, Jean-Claude Delhezattributes most of the blame to Joffre’s subordinate commanders, down to regimentallevel in some cases. For example, Joffre gave explicit instructions not to tirethe men with long marches as they were ordered north yet Langle de Cary setobjectives up to 30kms away. I have used this volume extensively this week as I walked someof the battlefields south of Longwy. I can see me continuing to do so as Icontinue to explore the area where the Battle of the Frontiers was fought on 22August 1914, le jour de deuil de l’arméefrançaise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 7 April , 2012 Share Posted 7 April , 2012 Steve, thank you so much for the review. Very very interesting and I look forward to reading this important book as well. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 10 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2012 Anyone interested in the initial encounters of 1914 in the Battle of the Frontiers should read this book........and Volume 2 is out later this month, covering the aftermath: http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/forum2.php?config=pages1418.inc&cat=2&post=5176&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=0&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0"e_only=0&new=1&nojs=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 10 October , 2012 Share Posted 10 October , 2012 Anyone interested in the initial encounters of 1914 in the Battle of the Frontiers should read this book........and Volume 2 is out later this month, covering the aftermath: http://pages14-18.me...=0&new=1&nojs=0 'vient de sortir' it says, implying the book is already published. Thanks for the heads up Steve, I'll go for that one best Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 10 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2012 Yes, you're right Martin, Jean-Claude has it for sale already from his website; I meant he's "launching" it over the next few weeks in the regional media etc. I'm over there in a couple of weeks so i'll get my copy then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 12 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2012 There are very few books on the Battle of the Frontiers, even fewer on the days afterwards; most French histories jump to or start at the Marne, this second volume reflects on the 22 August then takes us through events to 26 August when Longwy fell and IV Armeé retreated beyond the Meuse: L'échec de l'offensive française Le 23 août Maunoury prend la tête de l'armée de Lorraine Des renforts de Metz Premiers limogeages Le Kronprinz savoure sa victoire Les Allemands à Longuyon Le combat des Bulles Combats d'arrière-garde en Ardenne Orgeo Menuchenet La bataille de Bièvre La 4e armée abandonne la Belgique Le 24 août La bataille de Matton Autour de Montmédy La bataille de Longuyon La bataille d'Arrancy La bataille de Nouillonpont L'ordre de la 33e division La bataille de Spincourt La bataille d'Etain : premier jour – Eton Le 25 août La bataille d'Etain : deuxième jour – L'Orne Le combat de Conflans Le combat de Muzeray Le combat de Marville Escarmouches entre Meuse et Chiers Les Allemands repoussés de Sedan Le raid de la division Götz contre Fumay Le 26 août La chute de Longwy Epilogue Des Frontières à la Meuse Les forces engagées L'état des pertes La méthode Les chiffres Les enseignements tactiques Les limogeages Conclusions La révolution militaire L'infanterie L'artillerie L'aviation Le renseignement La méthode allemande La psychologie du soldat Les massacres Les hallucinations Les paniques Suicide, folie, mutilation, désertion Joffre en question Un tournant économique et culturel La postérité Sans la nommer La bataille des Frontières dans l'Histoire Historiographie La méthode Critique bibliographique L'empreinte catholique Sources Bibliographie Littérature française Littérature allemande Littérature anglo-saxonne ANNEXES Une autre affaire Caillaux Le travail d'un 2e bureau de corps Le dirigeable Fleurus en bombardement Artillerie Pertes Affrontements Régiments les plus éprouvés Officiers tués Ordre de bataille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 12 October , 2012 Share Posted 12 October , 2012 Order posted yesterday Steve cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 28 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2012 I've got my copy today but I think Martin will be first to post a full review; his French is a lot better than mine and he's just retired ! Having a quick look through and sample read, the style is similar to Tome 1: the content seems excellent, well researched and very detailed (as with Tome 1 the only minor criticism is the mapping but that's nothing that can't be rectified by reading in conjuction with an IGN map or Google Earth). At the end there is a comprehensive breakdown of losses for the period as well as the make up of the various participating units. I have just looked at the section concerning Les Bulles, which is in walking distance of where I am typing this, and his description of the action is brought vividly to mind. I am looking forward to completing Tome 2 and would recommend these two books to anyone interested in the Battle of the Frontiers, its immediate aftermath and consequences for the French Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 15 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2013 MartinBennitt, on 15 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said: Finally got going on this myself. Has all the qualities of volume one, detailed descriptions, quotes from participants, etc, as well as the faults (poor maps). Am about 60 pages in, with some 500 still to go. cheers Martin B I've just finished the fighting, with the fall of Longwy on 26 August 1914 (page 410). In some ways I found the descriptions of the battles in volume two more interesting than those in volume one if only because they are less well known (and even less written about) and there's a section on Les Bulles which is in our commune in Belgium. More great detail about the use of aviation: reconnaissance by both sides; aerial spotting by the Germans (including, from memory, a pilot called Deutner who at aged 58, helped V Army capture several 75s intact which were sent back to Krupps). I'll do a full review when I've read the concluding chapters which review the relative strengths and weaknesses of both sides and include an analysis of casualty figures plus a section on the limogeages, amongst other things.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 18 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 March , 2013 Good evening, After several weeks studying away from WW1 I returned to finish Tome 2. Martin and I have commented on some of the shortcomings in previous posts but nonetheless this two volume work provides a balanced and detailed account of the battles of 22 August 1914 on the front of the French 3e and 4e Armies and the German IV and V Armies and their immediate aftermath, culminating on 26 August when Longwy fell. Jean-Claude Delhez has primarily drawn from both French and German sources and has the advantage over the works of Grasset because of this. Whilst acknowledging the superiority of the German training, initiative and combat decision making, unlike Zuber he identifies the main reasons for the defeats as the incompetence of the French combat commanders (from army level downwards); the poor musketry skills of the French infantryman and the gross under-employment of the available French artillery. The combined volumes run to 1200 pages; most of which is the description of the individual battles that make up the Battle of the Frontiers. As all the engagements are linked in some way I would recommend reading them in the sequence they are written but with a chapter to each constituent battle it is possible to dip in and out of the book if you only wish to read about a particular engagement. Although they are worth purchasing for the record of the fighting alone they also cover the organisation, strategy, tactics and weaponry of both sides (Tome 1) and a comprehensive bibliography and historiography, casualty lists and orders of battle, plus several chapters of conclusions (Tome 2). In no particular order, of the other topics and points raised in the second volume I’ll just mention these four: The limogeage: most were ordered by the the army commanders rather than Joffre himself and the political nature of the French Army is brought home with the unjustified scapegoating of some whilst others, such as Leblond of 23 DI who displayed greater ineptitude, managed to hang on for weeks, months or longer. Some, such as Grossetti, were moved to positions better befitting their talents (3e Army HQ staff officer to divisional commander). von Knobelsdorf: made two major errors of judgement, each of which could have led to a major reverse for the Germans. The first: sending the northernmost units of V Army south towards Virton without advising von Moltke of this change of direction and creating a gap of 20+kms between them and IV Army. Only the prompt and persistent action of one of his junior officers Wachenfeld (an Alsacien) managed to persuade the Duke of Wurttemburg to send forces to plug the gap in the Semois Valley (and spectacularly defeat the French 3eDIC in the process). The second: a few days later ignoring the report that the French had captured the attack orders of V Army’s southernmost units, giving Maunoury an opportunity for a flank attack with his Army of Lorraine, which, unlike at the Marne two weeks later, he didn’t press home. The use of aviation: the growing importance of aerial reconnaissance is shown with many examples on both sides, but in these initial encounters only the German used aviation for artillery observation, permitting indirect fire directed by coloured flares. One example: the 58 year old German pilot Deunert whose observations led to the capture or destruction of 20 75s as he spotted their transport column, horses and caissons, sheltering in a valley. The German artillery destroyed the column, killing over 200 horses, and the French couldn’t evacuate their canon. Several were sent back to Krupps for inspection and study. Economic impact: even though the French lost 26,000 dead on the 22 August alone (not only more than the British on the first day of the Battle of the Somme but more than the British in the whole of 1914) the biggest impact of any loss was that of the mineral wealth of the Longwy-Briey basin to the German war-machine. The captured iron and coal reserves meant Germany was largely self-sufficient for the rest of the war; without the benefit of these reserves and with the impact of the naval blockade, Germany would have found it difficult to continue the war over the long term Notwithstanding the paucity of the mapping (there’s always GoogleEarth !) I’d definitely recommend this work to anyone interested in the opening battles of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alougheed Posted 19 March , 2013 Share Posted 19 March , 2013 This sounds like a must read, but how is it for endnotes and bibliography? Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 19 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2013 This sounds like a must read, but how is it for endnotes and bibliography? Allan Hi Allan, As well as over 800 annotated references to the main text there is a comprehensive bibliography, split into French, German and English sources. From memory the appendices also cover analysis of casualties by individual battle and rank; order of battles for both sides and an example of the work of one French unit's 2e Bureau amongst other things. However there is no detailed alphabetical index of people or places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alougheed Posted 19 March , 2013 Share Posted 19 March , 2013 That got my attention! I think I'm going to have to order this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 3 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2015 An update: The centenary may be in the past now but the history is as important as ever If anyone is passing through the southern Belgian Ardennes this year why not break your journey and visit the scene of the bloodiest day in modern French military history. The local tourist office still have their FREE 200 page guide, with contributions from Jean-Claude, available either in print or by download: http://pro.ftlb.be/index.php/ses-thematiques/tourisme-de-memoire/memoires-14-18 Jean-Claude has told me that Volume 1 of Le jour de deuil de l'armée française has now sold out (although certain outlets in the region may have copies). His summary of the two volumes is still available through Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/bataille-Fronti%C3%A8res-Joffre-attaque-centre/dp/2717865888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428061737&sr=1-1&keywords=joffre+delhez His two volume work is the best account of the Battle(s) that I have read but it is only available in French. There is now an English work available: one of Professor Philpott's PhD students, Simon House, has his thesis on the Battle of the Ardennes online here: https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/files/12690581/Studentthesis-Simon_House_2012.pdf In my opinion, echoed by Jean-Claude, it is the best English language narrative ever published (including the relevant content in the books of Tyng, Tuchman, Herwig, Zuber and Hastings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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