Guest BertieLissie Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Hi All, I have just joined this forum and am researching a casualty from 55 Squadron. I am a big fan of W.E. Johns of Biggles fame, who was also a pilot in 55 Sqn in 1918. This interest led me to the point where somehow I found myself in the possession of a silver cigarette case with RFC badge that came from the personal souvenir wartime collection of WW1 German Pilot Ludwig Weber. Adhered to the inside of the case is Weber's own type-written description as follows (translated from German): "This case was part of the personal belongings of the Canadian pilot who was shot down on 13/03/1918 by Lieut. Ludwig Weber, Jagdstaffel 3 (flight instructor of Hermann Göring in 1915). [The Canadian pilot was flying] above the Freiburg-Bremgarten airfield at the time. 8 DH-4 of the RFC attacked Freiburg coming from Mulhausen." I also have a handwritten letter from Weber (dated in the 1980s) to the original purchaser of the cigarette case which specifically mentions the souvenir. My limited research of Weber shows that he was instructor to Goring in 1915, flew reconnaissance (I have signed photo of him with an Aviatik recon), and the book "Jasta Pilots" shows: ---------------------------- Weber, Ludwig Vfw J3 (Jan 1917) - 6 Apr 1917 1 WIA J3 (Sep 1917) - 1 1. 3 Apr 1917 Be2e 1450 NE Brebieres 2. 27 Sep 1917 Camel 1600 Benkenberg Wounded near Biache, in ALbatros DII 510/16, hospitalised but returned to unit ----------------------------- I am told, though have not seen it, that the book "The Jasta War Chronology" credits that: On 13th March 1918 Vfw Weber is credited with shooting down a Dh4 serial number B3966, of 55 Squadron, piloted by 2nd Lt. A Gavaghan and Observer Sgt Brockbank. Both were KIA near Freiburg. This appears to corroborate the original description that is stuck inside the case. From "The Sky Their Battlefield" by Trevor Henshaw, the following 55 Sqn casualties occurred on that raid: A7489 55 Sqn MIA 2/Lt RB Brookes KIA/ Sgt H Gostling KIA DH4 claim 4:50 pm Ltn G Shlenker Js41 A7579 55 Sqn MIA 2/Lt TS Wilson WIA/POW 2/Lt L Cann KIA DH4 claim Ltn Schulz Js41 B3966 55 Sqn MIA 2/Lt C Gavaghan KIA / Sgt A Brockbank KIA Henshaw does not mention who claims shooting down B3966. So what am I trying to do then? Well, I would really like to establish whether Gavagham or Brockbank were the original owners of the silver case. The only clue may be Weber's mentioning of the nationality being Canadian. The CWGC site only states that both were nationality United Kingdom. I am not sure as to how accurate this record is. Can anyone help me with advice or by looking at their own research. Anything would be most appreciated. I can provide pics of the case and Weber if required/interested. (One other fact about Weber that may be of interest is that after the war he was at one time the personal pilot of the Ethiopian Emperor Haile Sellassie and designed and built their first (and only) aeroplane. He was forced to leave in 1936 by the Italian invasion. The italians "appropriated" the aeroplane and it still exists as an exhibit in an Italian museum.) Thanks guys in advance, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Welcome to the forum, Brad. We have discussed this cigarette case, briefly, some time ago. Have a look here http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6864&hl=weber Some of the aviation experts are bound to be able to help you further, I'm sure. Can you post a picture of the case. I don't think we've seen it. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Brad Welcome aboard. "The Jasta War Chronology" does indeed credit Vfw Ludwig Weber with bringing down DH4 B3966. The aircraft was something of a veteran, being delivered to No 55 Sqn in July 1917 and being damaged during a raid on Inglemunster in August. It was repaired and returned to the squadron in February 1918. I had a look at "Airmen Died in the Great War" in an effort to determine the nationality of the men you are interested in. There's no indication for 2Lt Gavaghan, but Sgt Brockbank is shown as coming from Halifax, Yorkshire. I also looked in "Canadian Airmen and the First World War" but 2Lt Gavaghan isn't mentioned (which doesn't mean that he wasn't Canadian - he just didn't get a mention in the history). However, I also looked at the on-line Canadian Book of Rembrance;, and he's not listed there. However, a Canadian who joined the RFC directly might not be listed as being Canadian. I hope this helps. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 The 1901 census for England, and Free Births Marriages Deaths Index shows only one Colin Gavaghan. He was born in Castleton (near Rochdale), Lancashire in early 1899. This would make him 19 years of age, if it is this chap, when he was killed. The name is not common in England (or Canada), being Irish. I can't find a listing for Colin Gavaghan on the Church of The Latter Day Saints website, to show he was Canadian. Perhaps the family emigrated....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Brad and RT "Airmen Died" doesn't indicate 2Lt Gavaghan's age either, something that is shown for many of the entries in the book. Could the Germans have been confused over the nationality of the dead airman? It's clear that of the six airmen from No 55 Sqn brought down that day, three were born in England: Sgt Brockbank, Lt Brookes and Sgt Gostling. Like 2Lt Gavaghan, the nationality of 2Lt Cann and 2Lt Wilson isn't clear. Perhaps one of them was Canadian and somehow caused the Germans to attribute the wrong nationality to 2Lt Gavaghan. Just a thought. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Like 2Lt Gavaghan, the nationality of 2Lt Cann and 2Lt Wilson isn't clear. Perhaps one of them was Canadian and somehow caused the Germans to attribute the wrong nationality to 2Lt Gavaghan. Or a German mistook Halifax England, for Halifax in Canada....?? Anyway, wouldn't all the information (age and home/NoK address etc) survive in Gavaghan's records....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 RT Of course you're correct about his nationality being noted in 2Lt Gavaghan's records. I was just trying to suggest the information that might have been available to Vfw Weber when he wrote the note inside the cigarette case. Sorry if I wasn't as clear as I might have been. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Sorry Garth, I know you are aware what's in an officer's records, but I didn't know if Brad was aware of this. As Brad has narrowed down his list of men, it is a fairly(!) easy task to get someone to look at the records of these men - and see if there is a Canadian connection.... or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BertieLissie Posted 25 July , 2004 Share Posted 25 July , 2004 Hi Pete, Gareth & Lt Col Teapot, Thanks for the replies and advice. Also was interested to see the previous discussion on the case. (Apologies to Owen... I was probably the one who beat you to it) Anyhoo, what you all say is interesting, and I am beginning to think that Weber may have been mistaken as to the country of origin of the original owner. I did manage to find one of the pilots killed that day, Ronald Brookes, on the Canadian book of Rememberance, but his aeroplane was not shot down over Freiburg & the claim is by a different pilot (Ltn G Shlenker Js41). I am very ignorant of how to research officer's records, so any advice in this area would be most appreciated. I am in Sydney, Australia, so am along way away from the UK! Other than that, I am attaching a photo of Weber for anyone interested, and will post some pics of the case tomorrow, as I do not have any on the PC I am sending this message from. Thanks guys, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 25 July , 2004 Share Posted 25 July , 2004 Brad I'm pleased that we were able to help. It's good to have another Sydney resident on the Forum - I'm in Castle Hill. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BertieLissie Posted 25 July , 2004 Share Posted 25 July , 2004 It's good to have another Sydney resident on the Forum - I'm in Castle Hill. Cheers, Gareth Thanks for the welcome and advice. It may sound a bit corny, but my interest in WW1 air war stemmed from my being a collector of Biggles & other books by W.E. Johns. I have a nice collection of books by the publisher John Hamilton, which in the 1930s printed many factual & fictional works about WW1 flying. I also have a keen interest in aviation art from that period as well. Being a bit of a 55 Sqn nut, the oldest book in my collection is "The Chronicles of 55 Squadron", written straight after thw war in 1919. Anyhoo. to complete the thread, I will add the pics of "Gavaghan's" cigarette case here. All the best - Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BertieLissie Posted 25 July , 2004 Share Posted 25 July , 2004 The other pic - Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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