smle sling

[Khaki]

This one of those irritating thoughts that suddenly arrive and one cannot ignore. I would have thought that going into the attack that a sling would have been more of a hindrance than an asset, looking at period photographs I was unable to reach a conclusion as to whether men removed them. Some do not appear to have them on the rifle. I suppose that climbing a scaling ladder the sling would be useful, but face to face with the enemy I would have thought that it may have been used against the soldier. also that crawling forward, say on a night raid you would not take the risk of it snagging wire etc. Has anyone read anything where this is mentioned, I checked other posts without success.

khaki

[aglastonbury]

Khaki,

An interesting point. I'm thinking back to my time with the cadets using the Enfield rifles for ceremonial. They were easy to throw around with out the sling (for about the age of 15 anyway when your big enough to throw them round) & the old canvas slings were very little inconvenience. However the new synthetic were horrible, like trying to hold oil that gave you paper cuts buts that digresses from your question.

Back to point & from an operational point of view I've only used the SA80 & yes the sling can snag. I have not bothered with the sling on the range at times but operationally its still good to to know my rifle is there.

I will be watching to see the view of others.

Alex

[4thGordons]

I do not know the answer and have no personal experience except hunting where I always use my sling.

Having said that I suspect that it is very unlikely that the sling was removed. It would seem to me that the likelihood of the sling being a significant encumbrance are minimal. Earlier patterns or substitute Pattern '14 leather slings were laced on so removal was less easy - offering supporting evidence that I think they would have remained on the rifle.

On trench raids I would think that perhaps alternative weapons may have been carried (revolvers, automatics, clubs etc) but where rifles were carried I think slings would have remained attached - my only justification for saying this is that I have recently read a number of trench raid orders/reports and they are quite detailed about equipment and what is to be taken and not -- and I do not recall any mention of removing slings.

Practically speaking, soldiers (even in front line combat roles and even in assault or support waves) may often have needed two hands (carrying wire, supplies, ammunition, stretchers etc etc) yet still needed their rifle - thus a sling.

I have not checked but working from memory - out of the hundreds / thousands of pictures I must have looked at of SMLEs in service I do not recall many with the sling absent - but again I probably have not paid much attention so I will away and look!

My strong inclination is to say the sling was universally attached but I admit.....you have me wondering now.

Chris

[4thGordons]

OK I am standing by what I said

I just flicked through a dozen or so "picture books" which include most of the iconic images of the Somme offensive and others, also collections like Flanders 1915 and the photo sections of a half dozen other books (Cheerful Sacrifice, First Day on the Somme etc) and have yet to find a photograph of a SMLE or MLE without a sling attached.

It appears to me to be universal. The only picture I found (in this hasty and unscientific survey!) of Enfields without slings was in apropganda picture of new recriuts in a public park armed with MLE rifles these (posed pointing at the camera-man) were slingless.

I would be interested in seeing pictures (front line or close by) of SMLEs without slings.

Chris

Ohh I found another one - an SMLE in a remote firing support (with periscope - fired by a string) this did not have a sling attached either.

Edited 27 October , 2011 by 4thGordons

[nick ward408]

Interesting thread,

I can only say from my days with the SLR that a sling was an important bit of kit, SMLE did not have a carrying handle unlike its predecessors' but I think it really boils down to the fact that on the rare amount of times you fire the bloody thing its so much weight you have to carry! hence chuck it over your shoulder and yomp on? also it gives you a hands free facility which enables any nice Sergeant Major who happens by to load you up with any other kit!

Another thing I always remember is sleeping with one end of the sling attached to your wrist so if you did get bumped in the middle of the night you would not leave your 'gat' behind you (wonder if sentries did that in WW1?)

Also from a practical point of view it was invaluable when shooting kneeling or standing as you could twist the sling into your elbow and pull it tight into your shoulder which gave a good shooting platform. Also a couple linked together was good for lashing things together when you had nothing else.

Last and most important... you signed for it now put the thing on LOL

Nick

[4thGordons]

Also from a practical point of view it was invaluable when shooting kneeling or standing as you could twist the sling into your elbow and pull it tight into your shoulder which gave a good shooting platform.

On this I am fairly confident - the sling as a steady for shooting was not part of official British musketry practice with the SMLE. It appears in US manuals with the M1903 Springfield but I have never seen any mention of it in a British context until the No4(T) sniper rifles of WWII vintage - which were issued with a US pattern sling to facilitate this looping around the forearm.

Chris

[Capt_Starlight]

I think slings were nigh on universal for seveal of the reasons mentioned. I have memories of reading of the Mespot campaign where it was habit (taken from the NW Frontier experience) to loop the sling through foot or hand to make it more difficult to be nicked in the night by the wiley natives. Apparently chaining them in piles was not conducive to either preventing said nicking nor to "ready reaction".....

[GRANVILLE]

Remove a sling and then inadvertently loose, misplace or have it stolen and you were in complete queer street. An essential piece of kit, very unlikely to be removed in my opinion. The earlier leather ones were swiftly replaced with the advent of webbing versions because they were so necessary.

Dave

[Jarebe]

We never slung a weapon, in fact during recruit training they weren't issued so that you had hands on at all times. In NI we used the sling attached to the butt end the other end we looped over our wrist to stop them being dragged from us.

[Khaki]

For those interested in this 'sling thing' there exists a newspaper photograph of a group of I think four New Zealander's entitled "first into Bapaume" or something similar, one of the NZers is clearly carrying his smle with a leather US springfield sling. I thought it unusual but not important until I read that the US slings were issued for sniping. I will try and find the material, maybe others are familiar with it.
khaki

[4thGordons]

For those interested in this 'sling thing' there exists a newspaper photograph of a group of I think four New Zealander's entitled "first into Bapaume" or something similar, one of the NZers is clearly carrying his smle with a leather US springfield sling. I thought it unusuak but not important until I read that the US slings were issued for sniping. I will try and find the material, maybe others are familiar with it.

khaki

This pattern of sling was issued for sniping in WWII...not as far as I am aware in WWI.

The elements of the US 33rd Div who fought with the Australians at Hamel in July 1918 were armed with SMLEs but retained their US pattern slings. There are photos of them being inspected/decorated by the King after the action where the slings are clearly visible.

Chris

[museumtom]

The Irish Army used the 1914 pattern leather smle sling. They were danged uncomfortable to sling on the shoulder and the later webbing one was much more user friendly. The Irish Army ones were stamped P&T (Post and telegraphs)as were most of the Defence Forces equipment as the were imported by the P&T and then passed on to the Army for whatever reason. Even the BSA bikes with the SMLE mounting brackets were stamped this way. At an Irish antique fair about 10 years ago I found a seller selling these slings, Stamped by a Dublin maker and dated 1941, P&T. The lad did not know what they were and were selling them for a fiver each.

Just thought I would add my ha'pennyworth.

Cheers.

Tom.

[Khaki]

For those interested in this 'sling thing' there exists a newspaper photograph of a group of I think four New Zealander's entitled "first into Bapaume" or something similar, one of the NZers is clearly carrying his smle with a leather US springfield sling. I thought it unusual but not important until I read that the US slings were issued for sniping. I will try and find the material, maybe others are familiar with it.

khaki

For the benefit of any NZ'ers out there, and anyone else who is interested, I located the photograph amongst my things and it is a very clear original copy, it's as I thought, more or less, it shows the New Zealanders posing for a group shot in the entrance way of a damaged block building in Bapaume. One of the men in the center holds a revolver pointing down and the others have rifles, the man on the right clearly has a US leather sling, (you can see the claws on the adjustment). I cannot show you the photo but I think that the NZ National Library holds a copy.

khaki

[auchonvillerssomme]

This one?

[Khaki]

Yep' that's the one

khaki

[4thGordons]

So which man has the US pattern sling? To the right as we look or to his right? It is not obvious to me on my tablet. I'll check on a proper monitor later but is it to the right as we look or ...?

Chris

[Khaki]

Hello Chris,

It's the soldier on the photographers right, (extreme left of the group) it's not easy to see, but on my copy and using a jeweler's loupe you can see that it's a US sling. I found it unusual as I didn't know that NZers were in contact with US troops, but I guess that it may have been acquired in any number of ways.

khaki