Help Identifying Brassard

[tn.drummond]

I would appreciate help in identifying the attached Brassard.

Taken in UK in June 1918 the colours / shades are as follows, top to bottom:

Thin White

Thick Dark (perhaps dark red, in any event darker than Hospital Blue)

Thin White

Thick Dark(could be as above, could be slightly lighter)

Thin White

Any ideas I might have are purely speculative but he does appear more able bodied than some of the group he is with (amputee etc) so perhaps the brassard indicates some orderly or porterage function

An edited after thought - could they be some kind of 'bespoke' chevrons as a Sergeant G A(?) Simpson's name appears on reverse amongst a number of A.N.Other's etc..

Thanks

FGS

[FROGSMILE]

I would appreciate help in identifying the attached Brassard.

Taken in UK in June 1918 the colours / shades are as follows, top to bottom:

Thin White

Thick Dark (perhaps dark red, in any event darker than Hospital Blue)

Thin White

Thick Dark(could be as above, could be slightly lighter)

Thin White

Any ideas I might have are purely speculative but he does appear more able bodied than some of the group he is with (amputee etc) so perhaps the brassard indicates some orderly or porterage function

An edited after thought - could they be some kind of 'bespoke' chevrons as a Sergeant G A(?) Simpson's name appears on reverse amongst a number of A.N.Other's etc..

Thanks

FGS

Hospital blues served a number of specific functions. First it was a means of establishing and maintaining cleanliness in military hospitals, where soldiers usually arrived in dirty, worn-out and infested uniforms and greatcoats that required sterilization and thorough disinfection. It also served to help improve administrative efficiency within the hospital environment. At convalescent facilities, the administration of soldier-patients involved strict division into four sections, each distinguished by combinations of the hospital-blue uniform and different-coloured armlets. The 'worst cases' wore hospital-blue with white armlets. Cases well enough for one to six months of retraining wore blue with pink armlets. Section three, including ranks who required less than one month of retraining, wore blue with light blue armlets. Finally, section four included men in blue with dark blue armlets who were 'practically well'. This medical organization by sartorial marking expedited the process of convalescent medical examinations, helping divisional medical officers to monitor and sort their sections during weekly inspections when men were either 'moved up' or 'put back from Section to Section as [their] condition indicates'. This information regarding armbands comes from: "Arrangements for the Reception and Treatment of Sick and Wounded in Hospitals in the United Kingdom during the Great War', appendix VI to 'The King's Lancashire Military Convalescent Hospital in Blackpool: The King's System and Details of Physical Training', TD (1918 ?), n.p., PRO (WO 222/1)". As these armlets were locally produced it seems likely that other hospitals may have had slight variations on that theme.

[tn.drummond]

Thank you for taking the trouble to provide such detailed information; I'm certain this will prove invaluable across a number of issues I have with other hospital photographs.

Ironically, the more I look at it the more I see a Sergeants stripes as there appears to be 'V' where the brassard rises at the lower thin stripe.

As a strict aside it appears to be half cloth and half strap so I'm not sure it qualifies as a 'brassard' at all. Would be interested to know.

When all's said I think your observation about 'local variations' is probably the most likely outcome.

Many thanks again, for your time.

FGS

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you for taking the trouble to provide such detailed information; I'm certain this will prove invaluable across a number of issues I have with other hospital photographs.

Ironically, the more I look at it the more I see a Sergeants stripes as there appears to be 'V' where the brassard rises at the lower thin stripe.

As a strict aside it appears to be half cloth and half strap so I'm not sure it qualifies as a 'brassard' at all. Would be interested to know.

When all's said I think your observation about 'local variations' is probably the most likely outcome.

Many thanks again, for your time.

FGS

It is quite possible that it is a makeshift brassard carrying the man's chevrons as a corporal and I can see the 'v' to which you refer. The men were entitled to wear their rank and I have seen others do so although I think few bothered as the uniforms were frequently laundered to prevent infection and it was a 'bother' to keep transferring rank. Chevrons used on khaki drill had been red up until 1902 and it is possibly an old pair of these that the soldier is using on his brassard. The coloured armlets would have been kept simple so the categorization of cases seems less likely in the case of the apparent multi stripes in your photo. I think the badge of rank seems more logical. The categorization armlets were also transferred to a man's greatcoat when worn over hospital blues outdoors in inclement weather.

[tn.drummond]

I think we're agreed on a Corporal's stripes then.

I'm now digging through my hospital and wounded files to see if I can make good use of the earlier info you provided.

FGS

[FROGSMILE]

I think we're agreed on a Corporal's stripes then.

I'm now digging through my hospital and wounded files to see if I can make good use of the earlier info you provided.

FGS

Here is an example of men who have both a medal ribbon (MM) in one case and a Corporal's stripes (unusually, stitched on) in another.

[FROGSMILE]

And here is a man with Sergeants chevrons on a brassard virtually identical to yours.

[tn.drummond]

Thanks Frogsmile...that last one is a cracker and nails the point for me.

If I come across similar this afternoon I'll post here.

Regards

FGS

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks Frogsmile...that last one is a cracker and nails the point for me.

If I come across similar this afternoon I'll post here.

Regards

FGS

This picture is more distant, but it shows that each man has a coloured patch on his right sleeve that is almost certainly for categorization. The fact that it is a patch and not an armlet exemplifies that each hospital was able to set its own practice based upon the regulations issued for the management care and administration of wounded personnel.

[tn.drummond]

And here he is - with a much laundered jacket...

[FROGSMILE]

And here he is - with a much laundered jacket...

Good stuff, and here is a man with the more usual 'pinned' on chevrons. You can see the 'nappy' type pin at the end.

[tn.drummond]

This picture is more distant, but it shows that each man has a coloured patch on his right sleeve that is almost certainly for categorization.

I think it illustrates your point very well. I've quickly been through 40 or so Postcards I have in similar Hospital / Blues situ and have found no such similar insignia so I'm certainly learning something here, for which I'm grateful to you.

I'll go through my Hospital photographs and albums later today and see what I can find.

Two things I did find were a soldier at a London Eye Hospital with two wound stripes on the left arm on a non-blue suit (I had assumed wound stripes were not worn in Hospital but then as SWB were I suppose it is logical that they too were. The image is not clear but will post if anyone is interested) and, from an Officer's hospital, a series of Officers with broken limbs all of whom wear a dark Brassard.

FSG

[FROGSMILE]

I think it illustrates your point very well. I've quickly been through 40 or so Postcards I have in similar Hospital / Blues situ and have found no such similar insignia so I'm certainly learning something here, for which I'm grateful to you.

I'll go through my Hospital photographs and albums later today and see what I can find.

Two things I did find were a soldier at a London Eye Hospital with two wound stripes on the left arm on a non-blue suit (I had assumed wound stripes were not worn in Hospital but then as SWB were I suppose it is logical that they too were. The image is not clear but will post if anyone is interested) and, from an Officer's hospital, a series of Officers with broken limbs all of whom wear a dark Brassard.

FSG

Officers were not required to wear Hospital Blues and were instead issued with an armlet which I seem to recall had a crown embroidered on it. I am not sure if it was red or blue.

[tn.drummond]

Apologies Moonfleet, I did not make my point well or with sufficient detail.

What I meant to say was that only those officers with obvious signs of wounding (arms in slings, crutches etc) were wearing the Brassard whilst those with no obvious signs of wounds did not display any such similar insignia. I thought this was evidence to support your 'categorisation' information. This was true across some 40 photographs from the same source and album and I've double checked. What I do find odd is that those who are so obviously unfit wear identification and those without signs of injury do not - seems the wrong way round.

I have now (goggled eyed and pupils boggling) been through all of my hospital and wounded real photos (approx 250 to give you some idea of statistical relevance) and scrutinized arms with an eyeglass. I have nothing that is comparable with your superb photo of the wheelchair bound with white identification. I double checked all of my wheelchair photo's to be precise and fell flat. The OR armlet I did find (pretty regularly, say 1:15 photos) appears identical to the officers brassard in my earlier posting and I have attached one for illustration. This could be the 'Dark Blues' of those soon to be re-trained per your document.

Conclusions ? I'm inclined to your earlier view that local latitude was permitted to General and Convalescence Hospitals / Facilities in exactly how different categories of disability / progress were identified. However, I am very uncomfortable with just how much variation was allowed.

Thanks for such a stimulating dialogue - I'm going to press on working on this area so any fresh input will be heartily appreciated.

FGS

[tn.drummond]

Just came across this, which I've had to crop more than I'd like as one of my daughters is on the non-neolithic computer and refuses to yield

Can't see it being a single chevron as it seems to extend too far.

FGS

[FROGSMILE]

Apologies Moonfleet, I did not make my point well or with sufficient detail.

What I meant to say was that only those officers with obvious signs of wounding (arms in slings, crutches etc) were wearing the Brassard whilst those with no obvious signs of wounds did not display any such similar insignia. I thought this was evidence to support your 'categorisation' information. This was true across some 40 photographs from the same source and album and I've double checked. What I do find odd is that those who are so obviously unfit wear identification and those without signs of injury do not - seems the wrong way round.

I have now (goggled eyed and pupils boggling) been through all of my hospital and wounded real photos (approx 250 to give you some idea of statistical relevance) and scrutinized arms with an eyeglass. I have nothing that is comparable with your superb photo of the wheelchair bound with white identification. I double checked all of my wheelchair photo's to be precise and fell flat. The OR armlet I did find (pretty regularly, say 1:15 photos) appears identical to the officers brassard in my earlier posting and I have attached one for illustration. This could be the 'Dark Blues' of those soon to be re-trained per your document.

Conclusions ? I'm inclined to your earlier view that local latitude was permitted to General and Convalescence Hospitals / Facilities in exactly how different categories of disability / progress were identified. However, I am very uncomfortable with just how much variation was allowed.

Thanks for such a stimulating dialogue - I'm going to press on working on this area so any fresh input will be heartily appreciated.

FGS

I think those on great coats were simply a hospital blue band so that when the coat is fastened to the throat the mans status as one of the wounded is still clearly apparent. It seems to have been universal and must have been according to a strict regulation.