brookg3 Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Hi, I am looking for some help in finding more information about my Great Grandfather George Edward Warner's army career. It is my understanding that he joined the army before 1914 and served in WW1. I have attached a photograph taken approx 1917 when he got married showing him to be a corporal. He has a badge on his cap but I am unable to tell the regiment. Any help with regiment, service # etc would be appreciated. Thank you. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 A bit pixilated...but looks like a South Wales borderer to me.... There is only one George E Warner with a Medal Index Card to this regiment...his number is 9690. This man was a pre war regular and was awarded the 1914/15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal. He entered the Asiatic Theatre on 23 September 1914. He was discharged with a Silver War Badge (unfit for further service) on 18 January 1919. This essentially means he was with the 2nd Battalion who were based in Tientsin in China at the start of the war. They were involved in the operations at Tsingtao against the Germans from 23 September 1914. After this they were attached the 29th Division and landed at Gallipoli on 25 April 1915 and after that campaign to the Western Front. http://www.1914-1918.net/swb.htm Not a Corporal...but a Private with two good conduct stripes...which basically put signify he had between 6 years and 12 years service (at which time you got a third) at the time of the photo. He also appears to have a Wound Stripe and Marksmanship Badge on his left sleeve. Are there any family stories about China or Gallipoli? Where was he born and where did he live? Do you have any other documentation from the war? Rgds Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 I'd agree with Tim, this looks like his MIC http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1 Sam Edited to add: - Tim's been editing while I was typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Sorry Sam...was starting to get interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 I agree with Tim that he is SWB, the badge is quite distinctive even at such a large scale as the photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookg3 Posted 26 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Tim, Sam, thank you for the reply. Sorry about the photo, I have added another one which I hope is better. Looking at the cap and comparing it to what you have sent, it looks very similar. My nan would tell us stories about how her dad (George Warner) worked at a brewry and one day he lost contol of the horses and they bolted. He ran away as well fearing he would get in trouble. He joined the army (lieing about his age by two years) - my guess he was 14 at the time. She would say he was a drummer boy and my dad said there were always a pair of drum sticks in the house when he visited. Some facts I know (not a lot): Born : 1891 Married in 1917 St James the apostle - islington , London Married: Louisa Crampton Living at 22 Queens Head St, Islington Early career was a soldier however after the war he worked in the railways Died : Uxbridge, 1961. So assuming that he joined when he was really 14, that would make it 1905. With what you have said about the length of service at the time of the photo (6-12years) , then I think it is closer to 12 years and this would fit nicely. This is the only photo I have of him in uniform. Unfortunately no stories about China and Gallipoli. - My dad said he would hear stories that he has been to the Khyberpass and some nasty events there. (may have been taken prisoner a short time - not sure though) . I have more detail on my other grandfather Albert Edward Brooks - died May 3 1917 at Cherisly (part of the Batttle of Arras) - service #27674. He was with the 8th Btn rifle brigade D company 15 platoon. A close friend E. H May sent a note to my grandmother (which we have) after Albert was killed and said that he had been hit my machine gun fire. Records found on this site indicates that on May 3, a push was on around Cherisly and that D company came under heady machine gun fire early in the day. We have many letters from him and his time in the trenches. I will attach a photo of him that was taken when the marched off to war. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookg3 Posted 26 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Hi, I have also attached a neat photo of Alfred marching to war. It was taken approx 1916. He is holding a young boys hand in the lower right corner. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Hi, I have also attached a neat photo of Alfred marching to war. It was taken approx 1916. He is holding a young boys hand in the lower right corner. Gary. This is how Alfred (correction - George) would have looked as a 14-year old drummer boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookg3 Posted 26 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Thanks Frogsmile. I'm thinking that this is more accurate for George Warner (enlisted as 14 yr old - perhaps drummer boy ) than Alfred Brooks (marching to war in the picture I attached) - my two great grandads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Gary, It sounds like his history generally fits you man in any event. He certainly looks to be no more than 30 or so in the photo. The positive thing is that the man we have identified (9690) was the only George Warner who appears to have seen active service with the SWB during the Great War. I would say it is very likely that this is your man. Do you have his Marriage Certificate? These sometimes give a man's regiment. Same goes for Birth Certificates....were there any children before his discharge? The 2nd Battalion appear to have been at home and in South Africa and China pre war...however the 1st Battalion do appear to have been part of the India Garrison between 1897 and 1910. If he did serve at the Khyber Pass with the 1st Battalion it does not to appear to have been in any of the actions which warranted the India General Service Medal. The 1st Battalion do not appear to have participated in such actions...and George is not wearing any ribbons. From what you have said it also seems unlikely that he served again after he discharged. This does not mean he didn't serve there on garrison duties at sometime between 1905 and 1910...and I am sure there were a number of more minor skirmishes unrecognised by a medal. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 Thanks Frogsmile. I'm thinking that this is more accurate for George Warner (enlisted as 14 yr old - perhaps drummer boy ) than Alfred Brooks (marching to war in the picture I attached) - my two great grandads. Yes I am afraid I mixed up the names, I meant George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 October , 2011 Share Posted 26 October , 2011 India locations of the 1st Battalion.....from the Royal Regiment of Wales website. At various times they appear to have been in the right locations (present day Pakistan) for operations around the Khyber pass. http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/brecon/fact_sheets/1.htm 10 December 1897 - March 1898 Meerut, India March 1898 - November 1899 Chakrata, India November 1899 - March 1900 Dehra Dun and Pur, India March 1900 -November 1900 Meerut, India November 1900 - October 1902 Peshawar, India October 1902 - November 1902 Mian Mir and Umballa, India November 1902 - January 1903 Delhi, India January 1903 - March 1905 Mian Mir and Dalhousie, India March 1905 - March 1909 Karachi and Hyderabad, India March 1909 - 2 December 1910 Right British Infantry (later Roberts) Barracks, Quetta, India The 2nd Battalion was in India from 13 November 1919 to 1927. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookg3 Posted 27 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2011 Wow, ..hats off to you gentlemen..I am very impressed. Thank you again for the info. It certainly has enlightened me. Seems likely that it is a fit and he may have been with the first Btn in order to account for the station in and around Khyber pass. Hopefully I will find out if there was any discussion around Gallipoli and China. It was mentioned that he may have had a wound stripe on his sleeve and that he was discharged in 1919 because he was unfit for further service. Would the reasons have been documented anywhere? I have looked for service records, but found none on Ancestry. I've heard that many service records were destroyed during WW2, so it may be the case for his records. . Are there any other online services to track down info? I happened to have found the marriage cert helpful, however this just gives his occupation as "Soldier".. The marriage cert was actually the point where I found out that he had told the army that he was 16, instead of his actual age of 14. On the marriage cert, he gave his age as 28 which indicated he was born in 1889. His death register indicated that he died in 1961 age 69. There is a 2-3 year discrepancy. Some discussion with my parents suggested that he ran away and joined the army say he was older than he really was. I'm sure he had some interesting stories. thanks again everyone. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 27 October , 2011 Share Posted 27 October , 2011 Gary, Have a look here for some ideas: http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm Try dropping a line to the RW/SWB Museum: http://www.rrw.org.uk/the-royal-welsh/h/regiment-museum.htm http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/brecon/about.htm I don't know if operational records pre WW1 are available. I am sure someone else here can fill you in. I don't think the reason for a Silver War Badge and Discharge would generally be recorded anywhere apart from his Service/Pension Papers. It was awarded for being unfit for further service as a result of service related injury or illness (included wounds). Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookg3 Posted 27 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2011 Thanks Tim, I will follow up..btw, my father remembers some talk about Gallipoli - no details though..just talk. regards, Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 27 October , 2011 Share Posted 27 October , 2011 I guess that is firming it up then.....a bit about the Battalion at Gallipoli here: http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/brecon/fact_sheets/10.htm Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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