who is this Devonshire Officer

[mgbarrett1]

Hi all,

CAPTAIN BEAUVILLE

Trying to find this officer who was supposed to be either with or attached to The Devonshire regiment in Ireland June 1921. like all things names can be confusing could be Bovill/boville anyone any ideas. according to IRA reports at the time he was supposed to have led the crown forces counter ambush at Coolbawn Kilkenny June 18 1921

Regards Martin

[grantowi]

Their are five Captains with the name of Bovill at the NA : http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=last_name%3dbovill%7cscope%3dcaptain&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

Grant

[corisande]

MGB and I have corresponded on this and the problem over the last few days, as I see it, the only real fact (probably!) is that "Beauville" was in Devonshires. None of the MICs are for Devons. The situation with this man is

1. The report says Devons, but he could have been attached - British Army was running short of spare officers and did attach RFA, RGA, and even RAF men to Infantry battalions to keep numbers up.

So to that extent on the Capt C Bovill, RGA, would still be in the frame from the TNA search. He certainly needs to be checked, but ideally MGB needs a Devon officer

2. He could be in Auxiliaries, as reports refer to "a mixed Crown force" which could have therefore been any mix of Army, ADRIC plus RIC (it is known that RIC were there). MGB is checking out ADRIC expert to see if his man could have been in ADRIC (that is an ex-Devon officer in ADRIC, I could not find one, but my records for ADRIC are not alphabetic, so are difficult to check)

3. There is invariably a certain "rank inflation" in reporting in Ireland, so this chap could have been a Lieutenant in Devons

4. I would agree that the balance of probability is that he should have a MIC as a Lt or Captain

5. With the "accent problem" I think "Beauville" is an Irish reporters rendering of what he heard. The English tend to speak in an odd sort of way, particularly a Devon accent as perceived by a Kilkenny reporter

[ddycher]

Martin / Corisande

Ran through the Devons Army lists from end of the war. No Beauville. Nearest is Beaufort (but you can count him out as in the time frame he was serving as Adjt with 4th Devons) and then Bovey. After that you are down to a couple of Bowdens. I also ran through the Bloody 11th and the 1st Devons time in Ireland, nothing there either.

Will check further on R. H. Bovey and get back to you.

Regards

Dave

[corisande]

OK

Thanks you very much for your help

[ddycher]

Guys

Try R. W. Bovill. He was a Lieut in the Devons at the time. Will see if I can find more.

Regards

Dave

[corisande]

Thanks

It is looking more and more like him by the minute

Click link to what I have found on him

For those who do not do links, he was born Reginald Walter Bovill in Cape Town 1900, commissioned 2nd Lt in Dec 1918 in Devons, and stayed on in army after war. (The Times announcement of his marriage is the key to confirming it all)

[Carmania]

This is his entry in Harrow School Register 1845-1925:

Entrances, September - Christmas 1913

Bovill, Reginald Walter (Small Houses and The Park), son of A R Bovill, Esq. (O.H.), The Cottage, West Hill, Budleigh Salterton. Left 1917. RMC Sandhurst; joined Devonshire Reg., Lieut. 1920. - R W Bovill, Esq., The Devon Regt. c/o Lloyd's Bank (Cox's Branch), 6 Pall Mall, SW.

Aled

[corisande]

Thanks Aled

Added that.

We know just about everything about him except what he was up to in Ireland

I have emailed a family member I uncovered. Mind you very few know ever know anything about their relations time in Ireland.

[mgbarrett1]

Thanks Everyone, There is always someone who has some info great help I would say that R W bovill is the most likely candidate.

The reports are from the local people in the area.

Castlecomer is a small town the locals would have known the local soldiers that were stationed there they would have seen them on a daily Basis it was no bigger than a Company position at most. More likely no more than a platoon were stationed there at the time, the main unit HQ would have been in kilkenny itself only 10 mile away. I am sure that the reports are accurate to an extent, the locals jokingly called him "Capt Bovril" so i am sure he was around the area for a while.

When the newspaper reports "a mixed crown force" they are right. The local reports also confirmed this. The Army, ADRIC (who were on a mobile patrol) and the RIC were all involved in the ambush. "Capt bovril" with the Devons took the right flank with the RIC which included a lewis Gun Detachment which killed Mullins and wounded Doyle. Members the ADRIC took the left flank with another Lewis Gun and they shot Hartley all those who killed or wounded were on the left flank of the ambush site.

Regards Martin

[corisande]

If you can eventually track down the ambush inquiry at TNA it may give a bit more about the composition of the "mixed" Crown force. Though I have found in a number (but not all the inquiries I have read that the Army often indelibly removed the names of the British giving evidence, even though the Inquiry was behind locked doors.

By the way Martin, I like the Avatar you use. It doesn't look like the Devons (my sense of humour)

[mgbarrett1]

If you can eventually track down the ambush inquiry at TNA it may give a bit more about the composition of the "mixed" Crown force. Though I have found in a number (but not all the inquiries I have read that the Army often indelibly removed the names of the British giving evidence, even though the Inquiry was behind locked doors.

By the way Martin, I like the Avatar you use. It doesn't look like the Devons (my sense of humour)

[Peter Mc]

Martin

I haven't looked into Kilkenny much but I can tell you that the DI at Castlecomer was Richard Henry Maunsell-Eyre, previously Captain 4 Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers (there's the Great War connection for you ). He was involved in several actions (along with ADRIC units that he commanded). I can probably dig out more names of the RIC and Army if I had the time (and the inclination - I have Comerfords book but its a rambling and confusing piece of work and I rarely peruse it).

Should you come across Constables Thompson, Button and Patterson in your research - all ex-soldiers - I'd be interested to know.

[mgbarrett1]

Peter, thanks very much before i say anything i was looking at your site yesterday very good information, liked it a lot well done. anyone with any interest should have a look.

As far as i know the senior man in Charge of the RIC section was a Sgt Keily i am only putting this together over the last few weeks.

from the local talk in the town as you know everyone was involved "after the fact" people claiming to know someone who was there and so on, but the interesting thing about the whole lot. The day before the ambush Brig George O'Dwyer i/c of the ambush had identified ten outposts to be manned.

When our "Capt Bovrill" with the Devons went along a road parallel to the ambush site they would have passed within yards of outposts 1 2 3 the other seven which included Comerford i can put names to but ALAS no is claiming that they were in positions 1 2 3. who? was supposed to be there i know as well but one wonders.

As for Judge James Comerford.IN MY OPINION

1 He was involved in the ambush but?

2 He was in an outpost way off on the Right flank and was not involved in the so called killing zone itself so very unlikely would have seen what actually went on that day.

his account bar what he did that day like many others was second hand information

[mgbarrett1]

Martin

I haven't looked into Kilkenny much but I can tell you that the DI at Castlecomer was Richard Henry Maunsell-Eyre, previously Captain 4 Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers (there's the Great War connection for you ). He was involved in several actions (along with ADRIC units that he commanded). I can probably dig out more names of the RIC and Army if I had the time (and the inclination - I have Comerfords book but its a rambling and confusing piece of work and I rarely peruse it).

Should you come across Constables Thompson, Button and Patterson in your research - all ex-soldiers - I'd be interested to know.

Will gladly do if i come across them

regards martin

[mgbarrett1]

I take you know what it is then? I did 27 years

[corisande]

Yes

Another approach for you is gongs. I looked up the list of gongs handed out and there are only 2 Devons on the list - they got MBEs

1. Lt Archibald Valentine

2. Lt Frederick Yeo MM

I have not researched either of them (a little thought tells me that Yeo was an IO, but I need to verify that). Found the reference - He is on the Secret List of IOs who were taken out of Ireland at end 1921 as their lives were in danger (there were 9 men on the list)

It may have been that they were involved in the ambush.

[mgbarrett1]

Yes

Another approach for you is gongs. I looked up the list of gongs handed out and there are only 2 Devons on the list - they got MBEs

1. Lt Archibald Valentine

2. Lt Frederick Yeo MM

I have not researched either of them (a little thought tells me that Yeo was an IO, but I need to verify that). Found the reference - He is on the Secret List of IOs who were taken out of Ireland at end 1921 as their lives were in danger (there were 9 men on the list)

It may have been that they were involved in the ambush.

interesting?

I will keep digging for info

thanks for all the help

[corisande]

Frederick Yeo did not get his MBE for this action - he actually got it a few months earlier. Does not prove whether he was here or not with Bovill

Click for more on Frederick Yeo

Yeo is an OR commissioned in late 1917, who stayed on in the army and retired a Major in 1940

It is interesting to note that the IRA knew exactly what his war record was!

If anyone has more on Yeo please add it here

[mgbarrett1]

Guys

Try R. W. Bovill. He was a Lieut in the Devons at the time. Will see if I can find more.

Regards

Dave

Dave /Cor, How would i go about looking for this guys service record. The more i check up the more i am convinced that this is our man.

James comerford -castlecomer involved in the ambush remembers meeting this Beauville/Bovill in Rings Tailor shop on Barrack street Castlecomer he said that he was a tall man and that he would remember him again even if he was in civilian clothes because of the birthmark "a hair mole under his right ear near his jaw bone"

regards martin

[mgbarrett1]

Martin

I haven't looked into Kilkenny much but I can tell you that the DI at Castlecomer was Richard Henry Maunsell-Eyre, previously Captain 4 Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers (there's the Great War connection for you ). He was involved in several actions (along with ADRIC units that he commanded). I can probably dig out more names of the RIC and Army if I had the time (and the inclination - I have Comerfords book but its a rambling and confusing piece of work and I rarely peruse it).

Should you come across Constables Thompson, Button and Patterson in your research - all ex-soldiers - I'd be interested to know.

Peter thanks very much your bang on the button. Richard Henry Maunsell-Eyre was dressed in a black uniform like a Royal Irish Constabulary man.Wearing black leggings and a black sam brown belt with two pistol holders,? he was square shouldered and about six feet tall.His features were long. he might have been about 40 and a nice looking man he carried a .45 automatic and a .45 webley revolver. he walked with a limp, he seem to be highly trained as a military man and acted as he had much experience in world war 1.He was cool calm deliberate.i did think despite the gang of scoundrels that were around him he was fair and humane

James Comerford "My kilkenny IRA days"

("sound familiar" reference picture unknown Auxiliaries)

regards Martin

[tipperary]

Dave /Cor, How would i go about looking for this guys service record

I think if he served after 1922 his records are still not public but they can be purchased i beleve from mod under certain circumstances.john

[corisande]

Dave /Cor, How would i go about looking for this guys service record. The more i check up the more i am convinced that this is our man.

AS munster says, the MOD will have his record, but you will not be able to get it. The post 1920 records need a declaration that you are the next of kin (or nearest living relative) plus Death Cert. You can get death cert with no problems, but it would be a bit dodgy to claim you were nok as he did have a family. This is a link to the necessary info and MOD form. I might add that as well as the £30 plus £9 for death cert, the operation is taking 15 months to get from application at the moment.

I see what you are trying to do in establishing him from the birth mark (assuming Comerford is right). You could do that from a photo, try and find one, but if it was unsightly he may have had all his formal photos taken from other side. Or try to track down a descendant (Ancestry or GenesReunited), which I could not find. It is a fascinating search.

You could try a new post entitled specifically Bovill and asking for a photo (put a link in to this thread as well so that people do not go over the same ground)

Or/and with his knowledge of the Devons ddycher may be able to help

[mgbarrett1]

Dave /Cor, How would i go about looking for this guys service record

I think if he served after 1922 his records are still not public but they can be purchased i beleve from mod under certain circumstances.john

John,

Thanks for the help

regards Martin

[mgbarrett1]

AS munster says, the MOD will have his record, but you will not be able to get it. The post 1920 records need a declaration that you are the next of kin (or nearest living relative) plus Death Cert. You can get death cert with no problems, but it would be a bit dodgy to claim you were nok as he did have a family. This is a link to the necessary info and MOD form. I might add that as well as the £30 plus £9 for death cert, the operation is taking 15 months to get from application at the moment.

I see what you are trying to do in establishing him from the birth mark (assuming Comerford is right). You could do that from a photo, try and find one, but if it was unsightly he may have had all his formal photos taken from other side. Or try to track down a descendant (Ancestry or GenesReunited), which I could not find. It is a fascinating search.

You could try a new post entitled specifically Bovill and asking for a photo (put a link in to this thread as well so that people do not go over the same ground)

Or/and with his knowledge of the Devons ddycher may be able to help

Thanks a lot i will dig more i finally got that scanner i am going to post that signature and see what comes up as soon as i send it to Dez Finally