Royal Engineers Differentiated Uniform

[tn.drummond]

The attached photograph is part of a group shot of Royal Engineer Serjeants who are alternately wearing Standard WW1 SD followed by what I take to be a Blue variant; dark in any event. Head wear also alternates in that the standard SD chaps are wearing Standard Service Caps whilst the 'Blue' men have a shiny peak, leather chin strap and narrower crown (half way to a pillbox, say). No distinguishing insignia or badges are worn save to say they all carry the the 'Bombers' grenade above their stripes and all wear the standard R.E cap badge. Incidently the Blue hue is far better tailored than any Kitchener serge I have seen so I think we can probably discount that avenue.

The photo is taken in Liss, Hampshire, and I am aware of the Woolmer Instuctional Military Railway and Bordon Light Railways that were both operative in the area at the time, indeed one of my Grandfathers trained on the former before shipping out to Flanders. Based on the above my questions are as follows:

(1) Does the Blue variant uniform refer to a specific Railway duty / function such as guard ?

and if so

(2) Was this to assist the LSWR on the Bordon line (accessible to the general public) or was it specific to the military line ?

and if so

(3) Was it worn domestically only as I have seen photo's of train teams in France where the dress is all SD.

Many thanks in anticipation to anybody who has thoughts to share on the matter.

FSG

[Nepper]

There are photos of ROD men in France in blue uniforms. There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it as those I've seen were engine crews. Needless to say they aren't as neat and tidy as the men pictured above!

Nigel

[tn.drummond]

Hi Nigel,

Not sure what you mean by 'ROD', can you clarify please.

Photo is 100% Liss in Hampshire and badge is 100% R.E so I'm not clear why you think they're in France or from some other unit.

Thanks

FSG

[Nepper]

ROD= Railway Operating Department, the section of the RE that operated railways. I'm sure your photo is Liss but my point was that I've seen photos of RE men wearing blue uniforms in France and they were not train guards but enginemen.

Nigel

[Terry_Reeves]

I too have some photographs of ROD men in what are probably blue uniforms and blue forage caps of a very different pattern than the khaki variety. These photographs were definitely taken in France. Like Nigel, I cannot offer an explanation. It is almost as if these uniforms were being used as walking out dress.

TR

[tn.drummond]

Thanks to both, especially for the ROD clarification as this is the sort of information I was seeking.

The photographs of 'Engine' men I have in France (two only I'm afraid) are both khaki. The 'walking out' dress comment is interesting because my group look very spick and span, but why alternate blue and khaki and why the different pattern cap. The reason I suggested the Bordon line as a possibility was I think (certainly don't know which is why I'm raising the question) that the Light Railway was a joint venture with L.S.W.R and the unusual caps look exactly the shape of some Tram (yup. I know Tram not Train but I'm sure the link is made) Guards of the period.

Their are 19 Serjeants in my photo and the thought has just occurred to me, could they have been ROD Engine driving instructors at the Woolmer Railway ? this might seem a better option than the Guard hypothesis.

FSG

[Nepper]

They might have been instructors at Woolmer but that still doesn't explain blue uniforms and it has to be remembered that most of the men in the ROD were professional railwaymen anyway, so they didn't need to be taught much about operating railways or railway equipment.

[tn.drummond]

I'm as much at a loss as you Nigel which is why I posted the the initial question.

I'd recently discussed my Grandfather Cecil's time at Liss / Woolmer with my Father as a precursor to this posting. Cecil was a professional railwayman having been an Under (?) Station Master at Victoria Park in London immediately prior to 1914 (he retired in the mid 1950's with 50 years service and Dad has his Gold Garrad watch). His full apprenticeship included all aspects of the Railway, from points to parcels through to driving to engineering so I too had wondered what the need for additional training had been. As a skilled entrant I can see two possibilities (1) the obvious assimilation into the Army and induction into specific martial applications and (2) an introduction to the narrow gauge of Light Railway which is what he proceeded to work on.

Still all of this is a side issue.

What I still wish to ascertain is why the different colour uniform and why the different pattern service / forage cap ?

FSG