Peace protest in Tyne Cot

[AOK4]

Hello,

After school children used the Menin Gate to air their protest against the war, I heard on the radio this morning that the CWGC forbid the use of Tyne Cot Cemetery for a peace demonstration of some kind.

I think this is a good decision, remembering earlier discussions and also remembering the tone (being anti-American and anti-British) normally used during these protest...

I'll let you know if I know more.

Regards,

Jan

[ianw]

Jan,

I had not heard of this Menin Gate Peace protest. I assume you are referring to a very recent event , not the much discussed event in 2002.

What form did the protest take. Did it take place under the Gate itself ?

Interesting that the CWGC has taken a stand , although it would seem unlikely that their ban on the use of the interior of Tyne Cot could be enforced if a large group turned up intent on using it for a protest. I very much doubt if they would ask Belgian police for assistance.

[AOK4]

According to what I saw on TV and read in the papers, there was some kind of protest set up by school children last week. They apparently gathered under the Menin gate at the end of the protest action. Perhaps Jacky Platteeuw knows more?

Jan

[charlotte cardoen-descamps]

I am afraid this is a very difficult situation. Peace seems to be the magic word nowadays, so ever since the war in Iraq started, protest marches for peace have been organised in Ypres. The intention was to have another peace march walking to Tyne Cot next Thursday but luckily the GWGC has forbidden the use of Tyne Cot. As far as I am concerned no political statements should be made in (or nearby) a WW I memorial. I have been in touch with several locals here (including people working at different town councils in the area) and most of them think it is not correct to link the present war to the events which took place here 85 years ago. Personally I believe this protest marches are showing very little respect to the British nation but as I am not a politician, I have nothing to say in the whole discussion over here. However, I can testify that a lot of locals are not happy with this peace movement. In Belgium we have freedom of opinion; I only wish that those who prefer to protest against the war in Iraq would do this on "neutral" ground and not in front of WW I memorials. I do consider this evolution as prove that politics don't always keep account of what the common people really think...

I do hope though that most British people will understand that surely not everyone over here approves of the link which is being put between past and present.

It would be interesting to learn how people in the U.K. feel about this. If you are not happy about those peace marches ,perhaps it would be wise to express your feelings in a mail addressed to the town councils of different cities and villages in the Salient?

Charlotte

[AOK4]

I did a bit of a search about the manifestation at Tyne Cot Cemetery and apparently Zonnebeke will now make the street in front of Tyne Cot Cemetery traffic-free on Thursday and let the demonstration take place there.

It seems "they" (I don't know exactly who organizes the protest) want to have some kind of protest to take place in the "Westhoek" each Thursday and "they" apparently choose Tyne Cot Cemetery as their next location.

The CWGC said that their sites could not be used for any anti-war protest as long as the UK is involved in the war.

Jan

PS there were some interviews with English battlefield pilgrims/tourists too in the last days.

[AOK4]

I was pretty shocked when I discovered a minute ago that the protest near the Tyne Cot Cemetery is organized by the municipality of Zonnebeke itself.

In the call for the protest, Zonnebeke says 'no war is justified'. I must admit such kind of generalities are ridiculous and make me very angry...

Regards,

Jan

[charlotte cardoen-descamps]

hello Jan,

I don't know where you got your information from but I have been in touch earlier this morning with members of the town council in Zonnebeke. According to them the peace marches where kind of forced upon them. I will contact the major of Zonnebeke to find out why he didn't decide to divert the peace march to any other place in Zonnebeke rather than to have it in the surroundings of Tyne Cot. I know for a fact that some members are not happy about the choosen location for that march. Hopefully I will be able to forward more information later today, once I have spoken to the major.

Charlotte

[ianw]

It seems the "fog of war" extends to Zonnebeke council !

Personally , I do wish they would avoid places like Tyne Cot but I think there should be no question of banning anyone from the road in front of it. However, I would be surprised if the interior of the cemetery is left totally sacrosanct on Thursday, given the passions the current conflict generates.

Ignoring the wrongs and rights of the current conflict, the lack of respect for the "Glorious Dead" and attempts to politicise them leaves me profoundly saddened. It seems nothing is sacred.

[john w.]

They have the right to march, but the choice of where is poor and sensitive to others who died for the cause of freedom.

I am appalled by their lack of sensitivity and applaud the CWGC action

John

[paul guthrie]

If I see such a protest while I am there soon I may well join them but not if it's on or near a WW1 cemetery or monument, these men do not belong to any political cause.

[Jonathan Saunders]

I think it is ill-advised to hold any sort of protest near the war memorials. If they want media coverage then there must be better ways to obtain it than demonstrating at Tyne Cot or similar monuments to courage.

I can understand their reasons for protesting but not at these locations. Some people have no shame.

[Bert Heyvaert]

I have mixed feelings about all this. I agree British cemeteries shouldn't be used for anti-British protest. But on the other end, I remember a British WW1 vet being interviewed after he attended the daily last post. He was quite sentimental and wondered why war happens again evry day. I don't think he would have objected to these schoolchildren protesting under the Menin gate... It seems these children associate the Menin Gate with peace, which is not such a bad thing I think

Last week I was part of a group of about thousand student who marched through Leuven. We stopped and lit candles at the first world war memorial at the station. This is the place where hundreds of civilians were shot by German soldiers in 1914. They were buried there and the monument marks their grave and mentions their names. I didn't find these actions offensive, to the contrary, I thought it was a splendid gesture towards those people who were innocent victims of a war they didn't ask for, a lot like the people of Irak...

[Mark Hone]

In my view the CWGC is quite right to hold the line against its cemeteries and memorials being used for political purposes. It is a slippery slope, and the war dead could be commandeered for all sorts of dubious causes. Didn't the IWGC have problems with the British Union of Fascists between the wars? I'm sure the peace protesters wouldn't be too keen on those sort of people parading in front of Tyne Cot to promote their views.

[AOK4]

The item was just on the local TV. It all seems a bit complicated to me. It seems that the organizer is the 'Vredesfonds' (Peace Fund) which gets help of a lot of municipalities of the 'Westhoek'. They wanted to hang white flags on the cemetery.

Afterwards the mayor of Zonnebeke was interviewed and he said: 'protesters may go on the cemetery with flags' but also 'we didn't want to protest on the cemetery'.

Perhaps Charlotte has more news? Were you able to speak to the mayor of Zonnebeke?

Jan

[ianw]

I would agree with Bert that only the very churlish could object to a group of children choosing to spontaneously go to the Menin Gate to express a desire for peace. However, a plan to bedeck Tyne Cot with white flags - if such a thing has seriously been suggested - is a totally different matter.

[Alan Lines]

I understand that other nationalities often view Cemeteries and Memorials differently to the British. That said, surely anyone can see that protesting, no matter how peacefully in a Cemetery is distasteful to say the least.

[ttd0]

I was in Aberystwyth on the weekend and the peace protesters were gathered by the war memorial which I disagree with especially as the news was coming through that a Welshman had been among the Marines who died in the helicopter crash.

[Somme1916]

First to Chris, Terry or Alibee; if in any of your opinions my posting is too political please remove it.

If not HERE GOES:

To me it seems that the protesters that want to use war memorials are “outstanding in their field” and that is where they should be, OUT STANDING IN THEIR FIELD! Not by, under or near a memorial that commemorates the bravery, suffering and the dying of so many men. Not to mention a cemetery where they rest, way to go CWGC for not allowing them to enter Tyne Cot!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a warmonger, I love peace, its preservation is why I serve my country but when the politicians have failed and they send the troops in it’s time to stop the bull and support them.

I’m afraid peace marches, while an admirable and noble thing, have acquired a stigma of being anti military. It makes those who participate look like they don’t support their nation’s service members. Some don't support us but others, even thought they march, do. On the other hand many who want peace do not march and I know where you can find thousands upon thousands of them. These people want peace more than anything but wouldn’t dare march to show it because of the anti military stigma. These are the spouses, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, friends and relations of the men and women in our armed forces. Yes, I know some of them do march and make televised statements to varying degrees against this war and the leaders of our nations but they are a very tiny, tiny minority of those who refuse to do so because it looks bad.

General William T. Sherman, of US Civil War fame/infamy said it best; “War is hell”. It truly is as close to hell as one can come while on this earth, ask anyone who has seen combat either as an innocent civilian caught in a war zone or a willing combatant. They will agree.

Praying for peace but willing to fight for it.

Jon

P.S. An US Army Nurse who was captured by the Japanese during the fall of the Philippines said after the war “Freedom is something you either pay for now or pay for latter; it isn’t free”. To that I add: "Buy it early the price is lower."

[Terry_Reeves]

Jon and all forum members:

As one of the moderators of this particular section, I have not found anything objectional about the posts so far, including Jon's. However, whilst I agree wholeheartedly that war memorials should not be the object of protests for whatever reason, and am keenly aware that members do have views about the present situation, could I please ask that , as a general principle, we stick to events surrounding the First World War.

Best wishes

Terry Reeves

[ianw]

I wonder if any forum users will be in Ypres on Thursday and able to report on events at Tyne Cot.

[Guest Stoner]

First and foremost, I would like to give my wholehearted support to the CWGC for not supporting any "Peace" protest at WW1 memorials, the men commemorated therein have done their time, supported "their" cause and paid the ultimate sacrifrice. To use any of these memorials, which are completely out of time and context, (apart from the fact that they were killed in military operarations, and over similar territory) as any kind of political or propagandal statement, is wrong! The FACT is that we are at war, whether right or wrong, our service men and women are only following orders and deserve our support.

That is my thrupence worth

Mark

[Aurel Sercu]

This is what my Flemish newspaper wrote about this planned demonstration (Het Nieuwsblad, 25 March).

No White Flags in Tyne Cot Cemetery

The Peace Demonstration on Thursday 27 March at Tyne Cot Cemetery in Passendale (Zonnebeke), for which there was an appeal after the Peace Demonstration of last week in Ypres, will have to do without white flags.

The CWGC has not given permission to fly white flags at Tyne Cot Cemetery. Now that Britain participates in the war in Iraq, an official British organisation cannot allow protest on its territory against that same war. Neither does the CWGC give permission to demonstrate or to make speeches in Tyne Cot Cemetery.

With this demonstration however, the Zonnebeke municipal council does not intend to enter the cemetery at Passendale, for the action will be organized on the public road. A few songs from the Passendale Peace Concerts CDs will be played, mayor Bourgois will read the platform text and after a minute of silence the manifestation will be dissolved.

It is evident that no one can be forbidden to enter the cemetery, neither the peace demonstrators carrying a white flag. Besides, it is not the CWGC's intention to forbid that.

Mayor Bourgois said, "We urge people to be present next Thursday at 7 p.m. in a large number near Tyne Cot Cemetery. We know from our history what war generates and we wish to take up our responsibility by expressing our protest vigorously".

(End of the article)

I give this newpaper article with the sole intention to provide Forum readers with the necessary information to form an opinion about this indeed delicate matter.

In this and other controversial events in the past months, the heart of the matter is that it seems that for many people in the Ypres area our war past and the promotion of peace are inextricably bound up, and that for other people (in the UK) it is hard to accept that. I think we should respect both opinions and attitudes, and try to understand each other's view.

But of course, demonstrating - even against a war - within the walls of a cemetery is in my opinion something that can hardly be presented as acceptable. I think it should not be done. And it won't.

Aurel Sercu

Ypres

[iain mchenry]

I am totally against the use of Mil Cems and war memorials as places for peace protesters to gather and spread their word. I am glad that the CWGC has not allowed Tyne cot to be used for this purpose. I am also in agreement that topics on the forum should be of a WW1 nature. I do intend to contact the Zonnebeke town council about this matter. Does anyone know their e-mail address?

Thanks

Iain

[ianw]

From Aurel's translation of the newspaper article it would seem that there will be no official ceremony in Tyne Cot. However it seems very likely that significant numbers of people will indeed enter the cemetery carrying their their white flags. One would presume that the entire gathering may well do this . Depending on the numbers concerned this will certainly impinge on the silent and contemplative nature of the cemetery. I would consider this action in the nature of a "trespass" given the known stance of the CWGC and therefore grossly inappropriate and insulting to the memory of the men entitled to rest in peace and dignity at Tyne Cot.

Can any forum user commit to being at Tyne Cot on Thursday evening to accurately report what happens ?

I am tempted to go myself but business commitments may not allow this.

[Hedley Malloch]

I have mixed feelings about all this. ... (snip) ... I didn't find these actions offensive, to the contrary, I thought it was a splendid gesture towards those people who were innocent victims of a war they didn't ask for, a lot like the people of Irak...

Well said, Bert, well said.