mmm45 Posted 6 October , 2011 Share Posted 6 October , 2011 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,558869.0.html Hi can anyone help ID this cavalryman wearing BWM and VM cap badge proving elusive ?? Thanks Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 http://www.rootschat...c,558869.0.html Hi can anyone help ID this cavalryman wearing BWM and VM cap badge proving elusive ?? Thanks Ady I think it might well be a Yeomanry regiment of the Territorial Force and a close up of the collar badges would help greatly with the identification. They appear to be stylised roses and that 'emblem' was featured in both Yorkshire and Lancashire insignia as well as Derbyshire. There does not seem to a be a crown at the top of his cap badge and I cannot think of a regular cavalry regiment where that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 The local Yeomanry regiment would have been the East Riding of Yorkshire Yeomanry; 'A' squadron were based in Hull. The uniform is a match (dark facings etc) but, alas, the badge is not. The East Riding's were formed in 1903 and from that time to beyond 1924 their Badge was a variant on a Fox and very distinctive. From the size and shape of the cap badge there are plenty of options if a crown is tucked under the top of the cap. I think an enlargement would help best although I would add that the badge looks voided to me & this would open up a number of cavalry options such as the Queens Bays etc. The collar badges have me flummoxed. Hope this helps if only for elimination. FGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaasz Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 In view of the numerous apparent inconsistencies, could it be a photographer's studio costume?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 Is it possibly a theatre-style costume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 I agree - it looks far too 'slack' for any self-respecting Yeoman, who (I know, 'coz I wos one, d'oh) are diligent over turnout in dress uniforms. Thoughts in my mind were initially something like the [League of] Frontiersmen but it doesn't quite gel. The cap badge doesn't look the part either - it looks more like (impossible as it is to be) the badge worn by civilian officers of the Control Commission Germany (post-1945). So yes, I think I will agree with the mood of the room and say it is a photographer's costume. Whether they're his medals as well; that's another discussion. I know what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 The local Yeomanry regiment would have been the East Riding of Yorkshire Yeomanry; 'A' squadron were based in Hull. The uniform is a match (dark facings etc) but, alas, the badge is not. The East Riding's were formed in 1903 and from that time to beyond 1924 their Badge was a variant on a Fox and very distinctive. From the size and shape of the cap badge there are plenty of options if a crown is tucked under the top of the cap. I think an enlargement would help best although I would add that the badge looks voided to me & this would open up a number of cavalry options such as the Queens Bays etc. The collar badges have me flummoxed. Hope this helps if only for elimination. FGS I had thought about the possibility of the cap obscuring the crown, but looking at the photo of the cap and with my own experience of such a head dress I can see that it is not folded over in any way that would cover any part of the badge and so ruled that out. I agree the collar badges look odd and a close up would help greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 7 October , 2011 Share Posted 7 October , 2011 I do agree that things don't seem to be adding up on this one and a posed photo in an amalgamated uniform (for whatever reason) does look a possibility. The chap's age also seems wrong for the medals, he looks about twenty at the most to me and given the 1924 date we're looking at him being, say 12, in 1916. I've had a trawl around my photos and all the normal reference books and the closest cap badge (given an awfully blurred image) I can come up with, ignoring all other visual cues, is the pre 1908 pattern Yorkshire Regiment (which he obviously is not) badge where the Crown is within the laurel. The Yorkshire / Hull connection is again there. FSG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm45 Posted 7 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2011 Thanks everyone will pass on your thoughts Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Ady Coming to this thread a bit late but for what it's worth I think the man in question is Legion of Frontiersmen. I believe, from the images, that the cap badge is the laurel wreath surrounding the letters LF worn by that unit in the early post-war years, the collar badges were smaller versions of the same. There may also be a hint of the "Frontiersmen" shoulder title on the chain-mail epaulette. I've attached an image from the Leeds Mercury, 12th March 1915 (thanks to Dave Stowe)showing the 'new' Frontiersmen uniform at that time. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Hi Ady I'm in late to. I've been looking at his gloves with the press stud?, don't look WW1 to me. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Ady Coming to this thread a bit late but for what it's worth I think the man in question is Legion of Frontiersmen. I believe, from the images, that the cap badge is the laurel wreath surrounding the letters LF worn by that unit in the early post-war years, the collar badges were smaller versions of the same. There may also be a hint of the "Frontiersmen" shoulder title on the chain-mail epaulette. I've attached an image from the Leeds Mercury, 12th March 1915 (thanks to Dave Stowe)showing the 'new' Frontiersmen uniform at that time. Regards Steve Well done Steve I think you have it, the uniform seems a match. As regards the gloves they are not necessarily a press stud and could easily be a button, as is still used today. From the distance we are looking they would look the same. The full ceremonial uniform adopted by the Legion was the blue tunic from the South African Police, and the Breeches as worn by the troops in South Africa. The Stetson Hat and the Strathcona Boots were adopted from the Canadian North West Mounted Police. The Sam Browne Belt came from the British Army. The Shoulder Chains were a token from the days when Knights wore yokes of mail as protection from sword and dagger slashing, and might have been intended as an indirect admission of the Frontiersmen to the Knights of old. It seems there were a lot of different badges and as well as the agreed organization badge there were different badges for the following units: 25th Battalion Badge 210th Battalion Badge Canadian Division Badge Queensland Command Badge Imperial Frontiersmen Badge Tasmania Command Badge Corps of Imperial Frontiersmen Badge Legion of Horse, Command of the Americas Badge I enclose a photo of a British member after the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 And here is the badge to which you refer in OSD (Bronze). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 And this is the first ever badge which I think might be what is worn on the collar of the OPs photo (via the link). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Hi FROGSMILE As regards the gloves they are not necessarily a press stud and could easily be a button, as is still used today. From the distance we are looking they would look the same. Didn't you spot my ? question mark . Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm45 Posted 4 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Spot on with your observations...I had looked at the LOFM but couldnt find anything in my initial searches so will pass all the info to the OP. Thanks again Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Hi FROGSMILE As regards the gloves they are not necessarily a press stud and could easily be a button, as is still used today. From the distance we are looking they would look the same. Didn't you spot my ? question mark . Gerwyn Hi Gerwyn, yes I saw your question mark but misunderstood that you were asking a question rather than making a statement. No offence meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Hi Gerwyn, yes I saw your question mark but misunderstood that you were asking a question rather than making a statement. No offence meant. Hi FROGSMILE No offence taken Mate, done a search with what I have, and come up with photos of Officers/Warrant Officers, wearing tan leather gloves, looking similar to the ones in the photo, I don't think a Pte would have had that sort of money to buy them though. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Hi FROGSMILE No offence taken Mate, done a search with what I have, and come up with photos of Officers/Warrant Officers, wearing tan leather gloves, looking similar to the ones in the photo, I don't think a Pte would have had that sort of money to buy them though. Gerwyn Gloves were made in many grades of leather at that time with the finest being so-called 'Cape skin'. It is not impossible that a man of the middle classes (many of whom joined the LofF as privates/troopers) to have afforded leather gloves, albeit of an inferior grade to the officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Gloves were made in many grades of leather at that time with the finest being so-called 'Cape skin'. It is not impossible that a man of the middle classes (many of whom joined the LofF as privates/troopers) to have afforded leather gloves, albeit of an inferior grade to the officers. Hi FROGSMILE Just had another look at the gloves, they don't look in the photo to be inferior? to me, in fact to me they look brand new, could well be used by the photographer as a prop. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Hi FROGSMILE Just had another look at the gloves, they don't look in the photo to be inferior? to me, in fact to me they look brand new, could well be used by the photographer as a prop. Gerwyn Your view is as valid as anyone's, but my bet is that they are not a prop and that they are not of the same quality as an officer's. Not a lot more to be said about this photo methinks, but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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