Khaki Posted 3 October , 2011 Share Posted 3 October , 2011 I have been reading with interest the topic on cartridge collecting, I am not a collector but I did pause to wonder, if I had cartridges would it be 'correct' to clean them. I am of the mind that they should appear in a shootable condition. However would I be making a mistake in doing so and be worth less to a serious collector (same as coins). I think I would clean any staining or corrosion and leave any natural patina alone. What do others think and do serious collectors clean their cartridges? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 4 October , 2011 Share Posted 4 October , 2011 As I posted on the other collecting thread, as a general rule I do not clean cartridges beyond removing dirt and crud. If the case or bullet has any verdigris then this of course is removed, and vinegar is quite good for this. A lot of early nitropowders are now causing cases to rot from within (particularly WWI American rounds) and so I always remove the powder from these, wash the cases thoroughly and reassemble. This is considered perfectly acceptable in collecting circles. Similarly, much of the German WW2 lacquered steel case ammunition is rusting from the inside due to exudation from the powder over the years. Another problem is oxidation of lead bullets which slowly turn to white powder. These should be cleaned gently and waxed as a protection from the atmosphere. Early tracer bullets from WWI were not sealed at the base of the bullet, so being deliquescent absorb moisture over time and swell, often cracking the case necks which were not annealed after necking. One of the worst enemies of condition is storage in wooden trays, oak being the worst offender and causing corrosion and staining. Corrugated cardboard which is not acid free is also a real problem. Cartridges that have been cleaned with Brasso or worse, wire wool, are considerably devalued. Only if it is something incredibly rare that is not going to turn up again would a serious collector want to have one in the collection. Bearing in mind that prices are ever increasing and that many rounds that were relatively common when I started collecting nearly fifty years ago now cost well over £100 and often very much more, it is worth trying to preserve their condition. I will post some pictures later today of the problems that can occur. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 October , 2011 Share Posted 4 October , 2011 One of the worst enemies of condition is storage in wooden trays, oak being the worst offender and causing corrosion and staining. Corrugated cardboard which is not acid free is also a real problem. Unfortunately in today's conditions unless you purchase special art quality card (used by top water colourists) it is difficult to find any form of paper based card that is 100% acid free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 4 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2011 Very interesting replies, I would never have thought of wood being a problem, I wonder if you could 'seal' either material with varnish or is there hidden properties in varnish? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 5 October , 2011 Share Posted 5 October , 2011 As promised, here are pictures of some of the problems of aging cartridges. The first picture is of a 1918 manufactured .30-06 tracer round showing how the tracer composition has absorbed moisture, swelled and cracked both the bullet and the case. The second shows age cracking on a rare Winchester 1915 .303 inch proof round made for proofing Pattern '14 rifles. Finally an example of a cupro-nickel clad steel .303 inch bullet that looked perfectly normal outside of the case but was badly rusted by powder exudation inside the case. Without cleaning this would eventually have split the case. Regards TonyE Edit: Sorry, pictures have posted in reverse order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 5 October , 2011 Share Posted 5 October , 2011 TonyE, nice photos that clearly illustrate some of the problems that can be encountered. Be nasty to have that happen to a rare cartridge. How do you go about reseating a GW dated CN bullet back into the case after removing the powder, especially in regard to the crimping.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 5 October , 2011 Share Posted 5 October , 2011 For most rounds that need some form of conservation I usually use an inertia bullet puller. However, if the round is very badly corroded the bullet can sometimes pull the neck completely from the cartridge case, so sometimes I use a collet puller in a reloading press. Generally when a bullet is pulled there is enough elasticity in the case neck for it to spring back to its normal diameter. The bullet can then be started in the neck and gently reseated in the loading press. Of course, that is fine for .303 rounds or any other calibre one has dies for, but obviously one cannot have the right dies and shell holder for some of the more obscure calibres. In that case I generally us two blocks of wood in a Workmate to genftly squeeze it back together. This normally works quite well and it helps if one aligns the crimps in the case with the indents in the bullet. Fortunately, not too many rounds need this treatment. I should point out that I have all the necessary paperwork, FAC etc. to hold the live rounds in the first place! Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 October , 2011 Share Posted 6 October , 2011 Good stuff TonyE, very informative as always, much obliged.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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