jwp2007 Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 should stop doing this !, picked up an RFC capbadge in a local antique market, the lady did say she thought it was the real deal but could'nt be certain, when looking through my books mine seems to have an additional small rectangle between the top of the letter F and the crown , cant see this on any other pics so more than likely a repro, some on online auction have this rectangle so looks even more likely to be faked, pics below from the web as not charged my camera batteries up. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 I have two original RFC badges and neither has the additional "block" above the "F". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 Interesting - not thought about it before. In the attached, the pic on the left is a beautiful original, blackened - no rectangle. The one on the right - contentious, as it is non-voided - has the block. I'll have a look at my other badges and see what I come up with. Any chance of a picture front & back? Best wishes Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 26 September , 2011 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2011 Thanks for the replies gents, Peter, I had noticed the rectangle on the non voided badges, my version is voided, will charge the batteries tonight and try to get some pics up later tomorrow, the back of mine has lugs, one quite bent and one that looks like it may have been repaired with solder, regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 Interesting! I'll compare notes too. Best wishes Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 My two RFC badges are voided and the centres "domed". They have flattened lugs and are mounted on propeller blade tip photo frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 I've been staring at photos of various RFC cap badges good and bad - and I think you've found a die flaw (the block) in the repro cap badges. Of course, there could be more than one repro maker, but this is a good steer. Also, look at the finer definition of the jewels in the base of the crown in the left hand picture - a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 26 September , 2011 Share Posted 26 September , 2011 I've looked at my five examples (four voided, including one maker-marked example from Toronto, and one non-voided), and it is only the non-voided example that has the rectangle. I've not seen other non-voided versions. so it is difficult to compare, but my specimen looks 'right' to me. How this helps, I'm not sure... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 27 September , 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2011 Thanks chaps,I do think mine must be repro,will try to get the pics up when i get home this evening, regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 27 September , 2011 Share Posted 27 September , 2011 When I see flaws like this I get even more confused about reproduction/fakes, whatever you like to call them. As we all know from what we have read in supposedly reliable sources the stamps were sold off and then came along the reproduction/fakes from these stamps, usually the only difference was the metal composition. But the reproduction/fakes we see, all have some small difference or imperfection in the stamping. So was the stamping from original stamps as widespread as we thought and how and what would have caused imperfections in those stamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maria Posted 27 September , 2011 Share Posted 27 September , 2011 My two non- voided badges(one attached to a side cap) which i purchased in the mid-seventies both have the rectangle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 27 September , 2011 Share Posted 27 September , 2011 Hi Only interested Army cap badges, came across this one a few years ago, at a car boot sale. I think I payed a couple of pound for it. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 When I see flaws like this I get even more confused about reproduction/fakes, whatever you like to call them. I think the confusion is caused by the use of the term 'restrike'. True 'restrikes' would be from the original dies, and as such, should be difficult to determine. In many, perhaps most, cases the so-called 'restrikes' are actually reproductions, made from new dies and intended for mass production of badges resembling (to a greater or lesser degree) the original. These should be called reproductions, and, if passed off as genuine (in the case of high-end examples), 'fakes'. Restrikes they are not. This has spawned a huge traffic on the British and Commonwealth Badge Forum in 'is this a reproduction?' posts. In many cases it is difficult to say, and in some situations there is considerable discussion as to whether there was any variation due to different manufacturers using different dies. It then comes down to personal choice/belief, as original records may not go into the exact details. In the case of the RFC badge, the presence of the rectangle seems to be mostly restricted to the non-voided specimens. Some authors doubt whether the non-voided badge is actually genuine. My example looks the part, and I am inclined to think it is genuine. Others may think differently. Anyway, gives us something to discuss! Best wishes Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 Only interested Army cap badges, came across this one a few years ago, at a car boot sale. I think I payed a couple of pound for it. No rectangle, but looks a little flat...you can get away with this badge in your Army collection as the RFC were part of the Army from, I think, 1914 (IIRC), having originally had both an army and navy component.... Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 I recall the massive surge of RFC reproduction (or fake, as you prefer) badges of all kinds when 'Aces High' (Journey's End with planes), starring Peter 'Sir Harry Pearce' Firth in 1976, with a second surge when the BBC started 'Wings' in 1977. I completely concur with Peter on the use of the word 'restrike' - it is more often than not a veneer of 'respectability' to out and out dud badges. Like 99.9% of Birmingham Pals badges which appear on our favourite electronic auction site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 No rectangle, but looks a little flat...you can get away with this badge in your Army collection as the RFC were part of the Army from, I think, 1914 (IIRC), having originally had both an army and navy component.... Cheers Peter Hi Peter Thank you for your information, that they were Army 1914. Nearly made a mess when posting, I have the brass RAF one as well, which I first posted, then realised the mistake , then, I would have had a few remarks/feedbacks. Theres no problem with the badge, it looks OK, as a collector, like others, I have bought badges, sold as repro's, and as I have said in another post, no cap badge collector, can say they have no repro's in their collection. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 as I have said in another post, no cap badge collector, can say they have no repro's in their collection. I agree - have been trying to eradicate them for years, but it's a tough job! Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 28 September , 2011 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2011 heres the badge in question, looks to be rather too much brasso residue on it !, it is solid where the rectangle is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 I agree - have been trying to eradicate them for years, but it's a tough job! Cheers Peter Ta Peter . Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 I recall the massive surge of RFC reproduction (or fake, as you prefer) badges of all kinds when 'Aces High' (Journey's End with planes), starring Peter 'Sir Harry Pearce' Firth in 1976, with a second surge when the BBC started 'Wings' in 1977. I completely concur with Peter on the use of the word 'restrike' - it is more often than not a veneer of 'respectability' to out and out dud badges. Like 99.9% of Birmingham Pals badges which appear on our favourite electronic auction site. I agree with you Mate, you've got more chance of winning the lottery, to picking up a genuine cap badge, I some times wonder ir they ever existed . Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 heres the badge in question, looks to be rather too much brasso residue on it !, it is solid where the rectangle is. Difficult to say without handling it, but one thing that is often suspect is that the lugs/loops have pronounced 'feet', rather than joining cleanly or with a small blob of braze. So I guess it's a maybe... Cheers P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwp2007 Posted 28 September , 2011 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2011 thanks Peter, i had noticed they looked unusual,as you say another one for the maybe drawer !!, regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 September , 2011 Share Posted 28 September , 2011 Happy to help! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlincolnian Posted 14 November , 2012 Share Posted 14 November , 2012 I have a non-voided RFC cap badge from a known individual, good signs of use and i had never looked at the top of the F to think about this, but yes, there it is, the same rectangle, so if this is visible on repros of any sort , then there is a good chance that they came from the same OLD die.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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