Uniform identification Please

[Guest Catrina]

HI

I am researching the military lives of my ancestors and have 2 uniforms to identify.

Anyone help me with these?

[4thGordons]

HI

I am researching the military lives of my ancestors and have 2 uniforms to identify.

Anyone help me with these?

Hello - welcome to the forum.

Top photo: Royal Artillery - driver.

(see spurs, and he is holding a riding crop and wears breeches rather than trousers)

Lower photo: Also Royal Artillery (see RA shoulder title and collars) a Sergeant. I am not sure what his patch is - others will know.

My guess would be that these photos date fromt he 1920s or 30s based on the the general style/quality of the image and the presence of collar insignia but RA in both I think

Chris

[jwp2007]

think the badge above the stripes is a gun layers badge,

john.

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with both the previous posters in all respects. An additional indicator of the 1920s date is the presence of the white lanyard at the right shoulder whence it had moved from the left shoulder around that time. He looks to me as if he might be a boy soldier (under 17.5 years) too. The badge on the second photo is indeed that of a Gun 'Layer'.

[RussT]

With respect to lanyards, can someone please clarify a few things for me (apologies in advance for my ignorance):

1) what are they for?

2) what regiments/corps wore them as part of their uniform?

3) what variety of colours did they come in? It seems that RA men wear white ones, so I think I have made a start there.

The reason I ask is that I just found a photo of my GU in uniform. Cap badge is not showing but he is wearing a white lanyard and I know he was initially in the RFA later transfering to the Lanc Fus. So I am concluding that the photo is of him during his time RFA. Is that a fair conclusion?

Thanks in advance,

Russ

[jay dubaya]

I can see no evidence that the fella in the first photo is a driver, he could be a gunner as both were dressed as mounted troops. The second fella looks to be sporting a formation badge which may suggest late to just post war, but as has been mentioned already the wearing of collar dogs may suggest a later date

With regards to the lanyard it's often seen in photos of mounted troops, the following may explain better...

Origins of the Lanyard

by The Royal Artillery Institution

There has long been a tale about the Gunners wearing a white lanyard for cowardice, allegedly for deserting their guns, but the story is nothing more than a piece of leg-pulling. However, it is time to put this particular story to rest.

Lanyards came into use in the late 19th century when Field Gunners manned the 12 and 15 Pounder equipments, ammunition for which had a fuze set with a fuze key. The key was a simple device, and every man had one, attached to a lanyard worn around the neck. The key itself tended to be kept in the breast pocket until needed. The lanyard was simply a piece of strong cord, but in time it was a typical soldier's reaction to turn it into something a bit more decorative. It was smartened up with white ink or even blanco, and braided, gradually taking its present form.

Prior to the South African War, Gunners were issued with steel folding hoof picks, carried on the saddle or in the jacket. In about 1903 these were withdrawn and replaced by jack-knives, which were carried in the left breast pocket of the Service Dress attached to the lanyard over the left shoulder.

During the two World Wars, the lanyard could be used as an emergency firing lanyard for many of the guns, because they had a firing mechanism which operated like a trigger. The lanyard could be attached to the trigger mechanism and allowed the Gunner to stand clear of the gun's recoil.

The question of which shoulder bore the lanyard depends on the date. There is no certainty about this, but the change from the left shoulder to the right probable took place at about the time of the Great War, when the bandolier was introduced, because it was worn over the left shoulder. But there are some who insist that 1924 was the date of change, when the sloping of rifles over the left shoulder would soil the white lanyard.

Eventually, in 1933, the end of the lanyard was simply tucked into the breast pocket without the jack-knife, though many will remember that it was often kept in place with the soldier's pay-book! On the demise of Battledress, the lanyard disappeared for a short time, but returned as part of the dress of the Royal Regiment of Artillery in 1973.

For those still plagued by jokers, the simplest answer to any leg-pulling is to invite the joker to produce evidence: no change can take place to any of the Army's dress regulations without an appropriate order, and since no such evidence exists, the joker's story falls flat on its face.

Jon

[4thGordons]

I can see no evidence that the fella in the first photo is a driver, he could be a gunner as both were dressed as mounted troops.

Granted he may not be a driver - but I thought the presence of a crop (as opposed to swagger stick) and spurs were a possible indication of his role.

Chris

[squirrel]

RHA wore riding breeches and carried a riding crop, drivers and gunners, in walking out dress. Collar badges and lanyards on the right post WW1 as has been said.

Prior to WW1 all cavalry, yeomanry and mounted troops wore the lanyard, usually white.

At the outbreak of war everyone was issued a lanyard. Regulations said white but colours varied, between shades of khaki to white, depending on the supplier or simply what could be obtained.

[Guest Catrina]

Woah, thanks so much for the information.

Bert, the top photo and Fred, the 2nd were my Great Grandmother's brothers. She lost one in Loos and I think Bert and Fred were too young at the time so joined WW2, I think!!

I will def look into what you have identified. Will help me narrow down the possible medal cards and records.