medal regiment stamping

[RaySearching]

Hi all forum Pals I have recently come across the following correspondence in a service file of a Soldier who was Killed in Action

Firstly a letter from a Soldiers mother enquiring about the number and regiment on her sons medals

I have transcribed it exactly from the original document as follows

Sir This Medal of my Son has got a number and regiment what he did not belong the N.Fusiliers

And he was in the D.L.I Sir I hope you see it put alright 56547

Yours Mrs Ann Garvey

And the reply from the war office

Quote from the reply from the war office ( All Medals are stamped with the Unit and No of the regiment with which men First served in the field)

Was this a hard and fast rule or were there exception to this

This is not true for all Grave headstones , Headstone usually have inscribed the regiment that the soldier was with when they were either Killed or Died of Wounds ,

and why the anomaly

Regards Ray

[IPT]

If you'll forgive me Ray, i'd be intrigued to know if Mr Gaffney lived next door to Mrs Garvey.

[RaySearching]

If you'll forgive me Ray, i'd be intrigued to know if Mr Gaffney lived next door to Mrs Garvey.

[/quote

Her son was Owen Garvey His Mother Annie Garvey Married Edward Gaffney in1906

so Mrs Garvey was also Mrs Gafney

see here

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

It was a rule but by no means "Hard & Fast"; human clerical/namer error meant that sometimes Medal were inscribed wrongly, for example the Star being inscribed with a later served in unit than that which the BWM & Victory which was inscribed correctly with [ie;the "1st" Unit],etc;with all things errors were made

[IPT]

so Mrs Garvey was also Mrs Gafney

see here

Ah, I see that Edward Gaffney had been stepfather for a considerable time. It was the change of address between No 28 and No 30 that had me wondering.

Back on topic - I had always assumed, from the marks on MICs next to the 1914/15 star and the original regiment, that it only applied to that medal. So i've learned something new.

[RaySearching]

It was a rule but by no means "Hard & Fast"; human clerical/namer error meant that sometimes Medal were inscribed wrongly, for example the Star being inscribed with a later served in unit than that which the BWM & Victory which was inscribed correctly with [ie;the "1st" Unit],etc;with all things errors were made

HarryBetts

thanks for clarifying the Query

Regards Ray

[RussT]

I am completely confused or missing some vital point.

I had a discussion about these sorts of things on this forum previously (I can't find it now), and I was authoritatively told by one of the experts on this forum that (subject to the odd errors etc):

a) you can never guarantee that the order of the regiments/corps inscribed on a Soldier's MIC would be the chronological order in which the man served. OK, that's a good tip to know.

the LAST regiment/corps a man served with in the field would be the regiment/corps inscribed on his medals. Without knowing any different as to the facts of the matter, I would tend agree that this is true. During my (meagre) research, I have seen lots of examples of records of men serving in theatre with an infantry regiment only later to be transferred (for whatever reason) to, say, the Labour Corps. In every such example I have seen of this, the relevant medal roll citation on his MIC is for the Labour Corps, so I assume his medals would be inscribed with that Corp and his corresponding service number in that Corps.

Perhaps an expert on this forum can clear this up once and for all.

RussT

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I am completely confused or missing some vital point.

the LAST regiment/corps a man served with in the field would be the regiment/corps inscribed on his medals. During my (meagre) research, I have seen lots of examples of records of men serving in theatre with an infantry regiment only later to be transferred (for whatever reason) to, say, the Labour Corps. In every such example I have seen of this, the relevant medal roll citation on his MIC is for the Labour Corps, so I assume his medals would be inscribed with that Corp and his corresponding service number in that Corps.

The medals are ISSUED from the ROLL of the unit LAST served with Overseas,BUT the medals are impressed with the Unit FIRST served overseas with* [disbarring clerical errors} hence the X with dots[what do they call that thing?]by the Unit on the Medal Index Card signifying the unit to be so impressed!! [Hence medals to Cyclist Bns; etc; that didnt serve in the Line,but went OS as a unit before being transferred]

* If the LAST Unit served in was impressed on Medals per se; then many thousands would indeed be impressed "LABOUR CORPS" which you do not see!!!

[RussT]

Harry

Many thanks for clearing that up.

I guess I am still learning.

So although the medals may have been issued by a certain unit's medal roll e.g.later with the LC, the man's medals themselves would be inscribed with the unit/number of the unit first served with in theatre.

Nothing like keepim it simple!

Regards

Russ

[sw63]

Now I'm confused....

Can somebody tell me exactly what would have been impressed on the medals in these two examples please:

I would like to make certain I'm looking for the right units whilst searching for their medals.

Thanks,

Simon

[RaySearching]

on the second one Christopher Gogarty

the ref mark the cross with the 4 dots on each corner (I dont Know what it is called either) is next to the Irish Guards so the Irish Guards would have been the regiment impressed on his medals

I am sure someone will be along shortly to let you know about the first one Wilkinson W G

regards Ray

[sw63]

Thanks Ray,

I've been looking under the wrong regiment...

Simon

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Wilkinson's Medals would have [should have] been impressed "L.Pool R" but would have been ISSUED from the ASC/RASC Medal Rolls giving L.Pool designation,there is no X & dots though,there aren't always; but the clerks should have got it right!! [hopefully]

it is always if possible worth checking the medal Roll page,as this often gives the Battalion served in with the first unit [Wilkinson is TF which cuts down the Battalion possibilities] and the date O/S can help if an original contingent or blocks of reinforcements dates are known...[ no body ever said it was going to be easy!!!]

[sw63]

Thanks Harry,

I know that he served in the 8th (Irish) King's Liverpool Regt. He was my grandfather. Again, I've been looking for him under ASC...

Simon