BSA .303 wrist stamp question.

[hadfield]

Hi all,

In the picture below the wrist stamp has ' 1** ' under the overstamped rifle model/type. What exactly does it mean?

Regs

B

[shippingsteel]

In the picture below the wrist stamp has ' 1** ' under the overstamped rifle model/type. What exactly does it mean?

This indicates the upgrade/conversion of an existing Mk.I SMLE with later modifications which essentially made it the equivalent of a Mk.III rifle.

These particular modifications were undertaken at the Ishapore factory in India (as shown by the I.P. marking stamped below the Mark number)

So being an I.P. rifle it would most likely make the butt disc ID a matter of searching for the correct Indian unit which is usually easier said than done.

PS. Your rifle also appears to bear the 'mysterious' D.P.B.F. marking, (which is understood to mean Drill Purpose Blank Firing in Indian service.?)

Cheers, S>S

[Thunderbox]

As S>S states, a nice example of an "IP" conversion - and quite desirable to Enfield collectors for this reason. Can you post some more photos of the rifle out of interest? The left side of the butt socket and the rear barrel/receiver ring usually bear marks that can help trace the history of the rifle.

Jury is still out on what "D.P.B.F." means - ie something to with "Drill Purpose", or whether its some sort of unit property mark. Personally, I think its a property mark, as India produced plenty of normal "DP" rifles and followed the standard British marking convention right up until the present day. India has hundreds of different organisations using Enfields (India is thought to still have more than 2 million in service or in store), so its often very hard to deduce what particular unit marks refer to.

[shippingsteel]

Jury is still out on what "D.P.B.F." means - ie something to with "Drill Purpose", or whether its some sort of unit property mark.

See THIS thread for more discussion concerning the D.P.B.F. marking, which was found to mean Drill Purpose Blank Firing in Indian service.

A reference was unearthed concerning the operations and activities of the National Cadet Corps (Indian) in a book shown HERE (see p.225)

Cheers, S>S

[4thGordons]

As S>S states, a nice example of an "IP" conversion - and quite desirable to Enfield collectors for this reason. Can you post some more photos of the rifle out of interest? The left side of the butt socket and the rear barrel/receiver ring usually bear marks that can help trace the history of the rifle.

I'd like to see these too. I have a soft spot for Indian Enfields (no obvious reason just do)

I have a couple of IPs but most of the original marks are thoroughly scrubbed unlike this one.

I also have and IP that was converted to a .410 "musket" but none look in as good a condition as this seems to be.

Here is my MkI** IP original date is illegible to me.

This is an IP CLLE

Regarding the unit mark - as stated there are so many and changing and ill documented it is really going to be impossible to say with any certainty. I tend to think that the probability is anything with P is "Police" in an Indian context as there are so many types of rural and paramilitary police forces who as Thunderbox points out continue to use SMLEs to this day. So my guess - and it is nothing more - for your disk would be R_______ Police and you can take your pick of Indian Cities, Districts or administrative units beginning with R!

Chris

[TonyE]

Chris - When I looked at the butt disk my first thought was "Rawalpindi Police".

Cheers

TonyE

[shippingsteel]

I have taken the liberty of copying the Butt disc in question over to this thread to make it a little easier to discuss - hope nobody minds.

When looking up unit markings I always try to establish the time frame involved, if at all possible, to help put things in context and narrow down the possibilities.

With this particular Butt disc would it seem reasonable to assume from the numbers stamped (6.17), that the markings at the top were applied in June of 1917.?

So that would mean we are looking for a unit or regiment that was in existence at that time. And apart from Regular Army units the Volunteer Corps were also prolific.

When you look through the listings of the Volunteer Corps units from these earlier periods it seems they are either regional/provincial based or sponsored by the utilities.

During earlier times at least, any Police based units are conspicuous by their absence, but I can understand that they may have come more to the fore in modern times.

Railway based units are particularly prominent in the reference listings, and so to are Port based groups. The only link I found to an R.P has it standing for Rangoon Port.

From a few quick google searches it appears that the Rangoon Port Defence Volunteers were quite an important part of the defence forces of the pre-independence Burma.

Obviously it is just purely speculation and nearly impossible to prove otherwise, but from what the references and some research can give us, it would seem to be a possibility.

Cheers, S>S

[hadfield]

Hi,

Again many thanks for your feedback on this, I should explain that this is a rifle that I was thinking about buying and those are the only pictures that I have of it.

Regs

B