Medical Evacuation from Gallipoli

[Guest]

An interesting account of a very unpleasant time being medically evacuated on a troopship from Gallipoli to England. The account is from "Life's A Gamble" by F H Cripps, a Yeomanry Officer in the Royal Bucks Hussars, injured wounded during the advance across the Salt Lake on 21st Aug 1915.

"

....from the clearing-station I was taken to a hospital ship, operated on there and transferred to an ordinary transport. I was only semi-conscious, but this was merciful, for if I had been in a normal state I should have found conditions unbearable. I found myself lying on deck in a tightly packed row of severely wounded soldiers. We were all wearing our uniforms and there was nothing between the deck and ourselves. There were 800 of us in that slow-moving ship. Her progress was necessarily slow as she could not fly the Red Cross flag. The Captain was with good reason fearful of submarines. A terrible responsibility rested on Officers in charge of these hospital ships, especially when at sea and exposed to a ruthless enemy.

It took us three weeks to reach England, and during that weary and dangerous time there were only two doctors and two nurses to attend to us. There were no hospital orderlies, no anaesthetics and only the ordinary military rations of bully beef and biscuits. I must say however that during the week in which I had been wounded there had been some 47,000 casualties in Gallipoli - and Gallipoli was only a side-show in the First World War. All this proved far too great a strain on medical resources.... I was lying between a sergeant-major and a private of the 29th Div, The sergeant-major had been shot in the stomach and after three days on board he died with his head on my chest. We were packed in like sardines in a tin: a day or two passed before it was possible to heave the body overboard

Among other very bad cases on board was an Officer, a friend of mine , who was lying close to me. He was strangled during the night by his neighbour on the other side who had been shot in the head and screamed out that he had caught and killed a Turkish spy.

My knee had become badly septic and I was operated on twice: I was given a piece of rope to bite on instead of an anaesthetic. Others were in the same unfortunate position. The private on the other side of me had his arm amputated without any anaesthetic . Undaunted, he just sat up, put his arm behind his back and said to me "Lord, it do make I sweat!" A Spartan indeed...

"

What struck me most was that there were only 4 medically trained staff to look after 800 men and there was no anaesthetic. I wonder what the survival rate was for these poor men. Three weeks with minimal medical care. The account goes on to describe how he raised merry hell with the War Office when he got back and triggered a full inquiry. He was well connected with the peerage and had access to the right people.

[phil andrade]

Why all the way to UK, when Alexandria was so much closer ?

Harrowing account, thank you Martin.

Forgive my quibble, but why do people now refer to soldiers being injured in battle, when the standard military practice is to describe them as being wounded ?

Soldiers who were hurt in accidents were categorised as injured, and differentiated from the wounded, who were victims of battle.

From what statisitcs I have, it's apparent that the survival rate for the wounded was remarkably good, especially given the ghastly conditions as depicted in your post.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

Why all the way to UK, when Alexandria was so much closer ?

Forgive my quibble, but why do people now refer to soldiers being injured in battle, when the standard military practice is to describe them as being wounded ?

From what statisitcs I have, it's apparent that the survival rate for the wounded was remarkably good, especially given the ghastly conditions as depicted in your post.

Phil (PJA)

Phil - your point in injury v wounding is very well made. I have duly amended the original post..

The main reason for evacuation to England is that by 21st August when Cripps was wounded (sic) the Hospitals in Alexandria, Cairo and Malta were overwhelmed with casualties. The action on the 21st/22nd August was the largest single action at Gallipoli, and the most costly in terms of casualties. There is a very good account of how stretched the medical services were in "The Medical War - British Military Medicine in the First World War" by Prof Mark Harrison. The Hospitals at Alexandria were overwhelmed with casualties and evacuation to England was the only real option. Presumably some of the transports were heading back to pick up reinforcements anyway, so it would seem an 'easy' (for want of a better word) solution.

The History of the Great War: Medical Services - Casualties and Medical Statistics provides a lot of detail on casualty rates and survival rates for men reaching Hospital, but I wonder if the men on the transports were included in the stats. If is noteworthy that the ship in question was not a Hospital ship, but a transport ship. I understand that the hospital ships had detailed diaries/logs of the patients. I wonder if the transports with wounded on board did the same. I am guessing not, as there appeared to be only 4 medical staff on board with no designated RAMC unit.

Does anyone know how the Sergeant Major would have been categorised? DOW or Died at Sea? I assume the former..... MG

[phil andrade]

Died of wounds, surely.

Your kind acknowledgement of my rather niggardly quibble is appreciated, Martin !

This sounds a terrible thing to say...but do you detect a slight hint of hyperbole in the account ?

I feel almost ashamed to admit this, but my suspicions have been aroused.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

Died of wounds, surely.

Your kind acknowledgement of my rather niggardly quibble is appreciated, Martin !

This sounds a terrible thing to say...but do you detect a slight hint of hyperbole in the account ?

I feel almost ashamed to admit this, but my suspicions have been aroused.

Phil (PJA)

Hmmmmm......It is difficult to 'prove' any hyperbole unless of course we can find conflicting evidence. I have no idea which ship he was on, and unless we can find another account from the same ship, it will remain subjective. When he says there was no anaesthetic, I find it very hard to believe. The idea of sending 800 badly wounded men on a ship for 3 weeks with no anaesthetic does stretch the imagination. Technically possible but very unlikely I think. One has to question why a confident well-heeled officer would find any need to exaggerate the conditions. His writing style is slightly egotistical.


I have seen that the Medical Services believed that the GHQ estimates for casualties in the Suvla operations were painfully short of what the Medics would have estimated. The senior Medic was deliberately excluded from the planning of the operation, so it is possible that there was a chronic shortage of medical equipment....I don't recall that many accounts recording a chronic lack of medical supplies. Maybe some accounts of immediate shortages in the front line, but the Field Ambulances, CCSs and Hospitals by August would seem to have been reasonably provisioned by August if the Official Histories of the Medical Services are to be believed. There is no record in the OH of a shortage of anaesthetics, although Harrison argues that Macpherson (author of the Medical Services Volume covering Gallipoli) was too lenient in his criticism. Aspinall-Oglander certainly wasn't shy of being critical but evacuation of the wounded did not receive much attention in the OH.

MG

[Sue Light]

I also find some of this hard to believe. The Official History admits to a lot of problems over these transports, and it seems that there were many complaints from patients about conditions, though the type are not specified. The complaints seemed to start from the beginning - April/May, and were still going on in the autumn. There were many changes in the administration, and trials of different methods of dividing up the lightly wounded/sick and the more serious cases to try and remedy this, and the use of different types of ship to transport them to Alexandria, Malta and the UK. However, by August the complaints were still going on, and there does seem evidence in some letters I have from nurses that the conditions on board the transports (as opposed to the hospital ships) were extremely bad at times, with overcrowding and shortages of staff.

There would have been no need at all for anyone to 'trigger a full inquiry.' The OH shows that this had been going on since April in one form or another, and there were already constant inquiries, assessments and adaptations going on to try and improve conditions.

However, I find it difficult to accept:

a. That there were so few staff on board - two medical officers perhaps, but no orderlies to care for 800 men? Who would have been taking round drinks, 'bully and biscuit' or handing out urinals, bedpans and bowls of water (at least). As I understand it, there would have been NO nurses on transports, only on designated hospital ships.

b. Cripps says he had been through a CCS, and then a hospital ship where he was operated on. I wonder why he was still wearing his uniform, or if he was, surely this must have been removed to wash and treat him and then replaced, but he does make it sound as though he was in the same condition as straight from the battlefield. As he had already had surgery on his leg, the further work may well have been incision and drainage of an abscess - to do this without anaesthetic was not that unusual, the dangers of anaesthetic being rather greater than a short period of pain during the procedure.

c. Amputation of an arm without anaesthetic I find hard to believe, but perhaps someone has evidence to the contrary - I know that there has been a lot of recent work done on the medical evacuation elsewhere.

d. Re: the sergeant-major who died. With an abdominal wound, he too would have passed through the chain of evacuation and had previous surgery. Not surprising that a number of men would die on any journey by hospital ship or transport of unforeseen complications. I definitely don't believe that a body would have been left in (probably) warm conditions for even an hour or two before being 'committed'.

e. How long did it usually take for that journey - surely not three weeks?

f. Strangely, I do seem to remember reading elsewhere about an officer being murdered in similar circumstances - I'll have to see if I can find it.

Sue

Edit: Out of interest, when was this published?

[michaeldr]

Defeat at the Dardanelles - Part II throws some light on this

p.252: Hamilton informed the WO on 13 July that to cope with expected casualties in the forthcoming operations he would require

"30 transports converted into temporary hospital ships and 200 extra medical officers, with Royal Army Medical Corps rank-and-file and nurses in proportion.

The contemplated operations first came to the notice of the Director of Medical Services and General Woodward and General Winter at about the same time. Surgeon-General Birrell explained that it was only by accident that he heard of the operations...."

It seems that Birrell was behind Hamilton's telegram and that the first was not to his liking so another was also sent.

"Surgeon-General Birrell informed us that his final scheme for the evacuation of casualties from Helles, Anzac and Suvla was based upon an estimate of 30,000 casualties; and this was also the estimate of Sir Ian Hamilton.... ....The scheme provided for the use of six hospital ships and 30 transports used as temporary hospital ships. The hospital ships were to take the serious cases and, when full, carry them to the bases and return to the peninsula. Sir James Porter disapproved of sending the hospital ships away from the battle area, and made out a plan of his own for the movement of the ships and other craft which is set out in his statement. This plan aimed at reserving the hospital ships more exclusively for serious cases and providing greater facilities for separating the light from the serious cases. The cases were then transferred from the hospital ships into transports for carriage to the bases and the hospital ships returned to the beaches.

The evacuation was carried out in accordance with Sir James Porter's dispositions and, on the whole, the cases were better sorted than in the original landing. but there was still considerable confusion."

[michaeldr]

In its conclusion the commission found that -

"Though a great deal of discomfort, amounting in certain cases to actual suffering, was occasioned to the wounded by the deficiency in medical attendance and the want of proper appliances on board the transports, we think that the results of the evidence is that the loss of life in consequence was small………..

…………….Surgeon-General Howse. The last-named witness described the conditions as 'extremely difficulty' and exceptional, and said: 'We were in the unfortunate position of having no history to guide us of a previous landing on such a large scale in modern times, so that we could get no idea of what medical arrangements should have been made.' "

Phil mentions hyperbole – the commission examined in some detail the case of the Saturnia at the end of June, and found that there was much conflicting evidence as to both numbers of wounded and the numbers of medical staff. They also found that at the same time as she was being used to transport wounded, the ship still had a load of ammunition on board!

[page 266]

regards

Michael

[Guest]

Sue - many thanks for your detailed post. I think your arguments are very sound.

The book was published in 1957, but it is possible that he was writing from a diary that he kept at the time. Either way I must say I can't disagree with any of your points, but it raises the question why someone would exaggerate to the point of lying in a published account.

I have posted my views on the integrity of source material a few times elsewhere. In the early WWI published accounts, often accuracy was subordinated to the primary aim of protecting the reputations of individuals and regiments. It is alarming the number of differences one sees between War Diaries and published regimental histories. Even with original source material, I have found that it is best to be highly skeptical of single accounts. Where there are multiple versions of an account, it allows us to identify which author was embellishing the most. There is a good example of this in an account by Father Henry C Day SJ in his published memoire "A Cavalry Chaplain" where he grossly exaggerates the detail of an account of a crashed British aircraft. see here. It is quite possible that Cripps is embellishing. He wouldn't be the first Gallipoli veteran to do so. We clearly need to see a few more accounts of evacuation by ship to compare Cripps' account.

Some additional food for thought:

1. Delayed Operations. I have seen other accounts of men being on ships with head wounds and not being operated on until back in England. I will try and dig them out. If anyone has similar accounts, please feel free to post them here as it would be interesting to gather these in one place. Edit: There is a wonderfully detailed account by 'Juvenis' in his 'Suvla Bay and After" when evacuated to England aboard the Aquitania. A rather more sedate and pleasant journey. Available free online.

2. Voyage Time. The outbound voyage from Avonmouth to Alexandria for the 2nd Mounted Div (including Cripp's regiment) took 11 days, including a short stop in Malta and a circuitous route to avoid submarines, so again the 21 days he claims sounds extremely long. I have not done a detailed analysis of the average, max and min times for the voyage but it would be fairly easy to do as just about every War Diary and regimental history recorded departure and arrival dates. I will revert on this, but I am pretty sure 11-13 days was about right.

3. Inquiry. He actually says the following: "Mrs Leopold de Rothchild* was one of my most constant visitors [in Lady Ridley's hospital in Carlton House] When I had described our voyage home she spoke to the head of the medical services at the War Office about it. They told her they were unable to believe my story, so I made and signed a full statement which she sent to them. Subsequently the War Office held a full inquiry, apologized to me and admitted that my story was only too true. They sent Frank Romer, who had attended me once after a hunting accident, to Alexandria. He conducted a seraching inquiry which established the truth of what I had said" This raises even more questions:

a. Why would he embellish a story and drag in names of other people who might contradict his version? It just seems unwise, especially as one of the other players in the story came from a high profile family.

b. Has anyone seen Romer's report or papers? I have never heard the name before. He is not mentioned in the OH Medical Services or in Harrison's book.

c. It is possible that Cripps' statement still exists in the national archives.

* Mrs Leopold de Rothschild was Marie Perugia (1862-1937) wife of Leopold de Rothschild (1845-1917) and mother of the aptly named Evelyn Achille de Rothschild (1886 -1917) who was also serving with the Royal Bucks Hussars and brought the Regiment out of Gallipoli (unlike the real Achilles). It is noteworthy that she would have not been alive when Cripps published his autobiography in 1957, so could not confirm or deny his version of events. But is does demonstrate that he had friends in high places who would have the ear of the Govt.

More investigation I think....

MG

[stevem49]

Interesting. One of my chaps was on a hospital ship but not operated on until he arrived in Malta. 30 men died during the trip but I believe they were buried at sea. He had nothing but praise for the doctors, nurses and orderlies.

He was on the ship 'Salta' and wrote home on 15th August 1915.

Possibly it was the luck of the draw as to the ship you ended up on.

[Guest]

In its conclusion the commission found that -

"Though a great deal of discomfort, amounting in certain cases to actual suffering, was occasioned to the wounded by the deficiency in medical attendance and the want of proper appliances on board the transports, we think that the results of the evidence is that the loss of life in consequence was small………..

…………….Surgeon-General Howse. The last-named witness described the conditions as 'extremely difficulty' and exceptional, and said: 'We were in the unfortunate position of having no history to guide us of a previous landing on such a large scale in modern times, so that we could get no idea of what medical arrangements should have been made.' "

Phil mentions hyperbole – the commission examined in some detail the case of the Saturnia at the end of June, and found that there was much conflicting evidence as to both numbers of wounded and the numbers of medical staff. They also found that at the same time as she was being used to transport wounded, the ship still had a load of ammunition on board!

[page 266]

regards

Michael

Michael - thank you for these posts. Most interesting...

Harrison points out that there was hard evidence that Hamilton attempted coerce some senior MOs before they gave evidence at the Dardanelles commission. He also claims there was collusion between witnesses. He points out that evacuation of the wounded was the most contentious issue for the medical aspects of the Commission and in particular reports of the appalling conditions on some of the ships. Here, Hamilton and Birrell's statements conflicted. Harrison concludes that Birrell was made the scapegoat and that Hamilton should have shouldered more of the overall blame.

Reading the chapter again, "Gallipoli: the failure of Command" there is certainly a considerable amount of material referring to 'appalling conditions' on some of the troopships used to transport casualties.

It is worth noting that transporting wounded on troopships would also allow for transportation of ammunition - as long as the ship was not marked with the Red Cross. Cripps specifically mentions his concern for the Captains of such ships being legitimate targets for submarines despite carry hundreds of wounded.

MG

[Guest]

Interesting. One of my chaps was on a hospital ship but not operated on until he arrived in Malta. 30 men died during the trip but I believe they were buried at sea. He had nothing but praise for the doctors, nurses and orderlies.

He was on the ship 'Salta' and wrote home on 15th August 1915.

Possibly it was the luck of the draw as to the ship you ended up on.

Thanks Steve -

Was it a head wound? Maybe this is the example I was thinking about...MG

[stevem49]

He had a lower leg wound and knee wound. Lost a leg below the knee. (page 35 of 9th bn Sherwood Foresters history)

That is why I find it difficult to believe that they would have performed operations on the ship, as my man was only cared for until Malta.

Would the ships have facilities for operations?

Another interesting and thought provoking thread Martin.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Part of Hansard CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 3) BILL.HC Deb 23 June 1915 vol 72 cc1276-303

Mr. ROCH

The next case I wish to bring under the attention of the right hon. Gentleman is that of the organisation of the medical department in the Dardanelles. I hope that the arrangements have been improved a great deal since the time to which the story I am about to relate applies. It has been told to me in connection with the treatment of the wounded after the big action on 5th, 7th, and 8th May, when there were, as we know, unfortunately, many thousands of men wounded as a result of the three days' engagement. These men had to be transported to Malta and Alexandria, in order to get hospital treatment. I am told that the mode by which they were removed from the Gallipoli Peninsula was as follows. They were put on ships' launches, then removed to trawlers, and then put into a transport ship. I would like to suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that, with the resources we have in this country, it would be a tremendous saving of suffering, and would ensure better organisation, if there were provided a number of lighters which could take these men direct to the transport, and so get over this double system of transfer. When these men were removed to the transports, they were put in numbers of 800 or 1,000 on each ship, and in the case, certainly of three of these ships, with 800 or a 1,000 patients, there were only three surgeons and two orderlies to attend to them. The right hon. Gentleman must agree that that was totally and absolutely inadequate and insufficient. The result was, of course, that many of the men were not able to get attention for five or even six days. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to say that many more medical men have now been sent out.

[Guest]

He had a lower leg wound and knee wound. Lost a leg below the knee. (page 35 of 9th bn Sherwood Foresters history)

That is why I find it difficult to believe that they would have performed operations on the ship, as my man was only cared for until Malta.

Would the ships have facilities for operations?

Steve - many thanks for the info

With regards to your question, There were definitely some fully equipped hospital ships that performed operations. These should not be confused with unmarked transport ships used as improved casualty evacuation ships. It is clear that Cripps was on one of the latter. I suspect he might be amalgamating a few stories here. MG

[Guest]

Part of Hansard CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 3) BILL.HC Deb 23 June 1915 vol 72 cc1276-303

Mr. ROCH

The next case I wish to bring under the attention of the right hon. Gentleman is that of the organisation of the medical department in the Dardanelles. I hope that the arrangements have been improved a great deal since the time to which the story I am about to relate applies. It has been told to me in connection with the treatment of the wounded after the big action on 5th, 7th, and 8th May, when there were, as we know, unfortunately, many thousands of men wounded as a result of the three days' engagement. These men had to be transported to Malta and Alexandria, in order to get hospital treatment. I am told that the mode by which they were removed from the Gallipoli Peninsula was as follows. They were put on ships' launches, then removed to trawlers, and then put into a transport ship. I would like to suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that, with the resources we have in this country, it would be a tremendous saving of suffering, and would ensure better organisation, if there were provided a number of lighters which could take these men direct to the transport, and so get over this double system of transfer. When these men were removed to the transports, they were put in numbers of 800 or 1,000 on each ship, and in the case, certainly of three of these ships, with 800 or a 1,000 patients, there were only three surgeons and two orderlies to attend to them. The right hon. Gentleman must agree that that was totally and absolutely inadequate and insufficient. The result was, of course, that many of the men were not able to get attention for five or even six days. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to say that many more medical men have now been sent out.

Thank you. Very interesting. I note this is some 2-3 months before Cripps' allegations. Is this another Gallipoli myth? Could the politician be regurgitating unconfirmed rumour or is this fact I wonder? If these allegations are indeed true, presumably there would have been a full inquiry and a report..... I still have not been able to trace anything with regards to a report on this subject in the Cabinet Papers at TNA.

Thanks again... MG

[kjharris]

Hi

I am researching nurses on hospital and transport ships during the Gallipoli campaign and contribute the following:

military nurses did serve on transports, most often ones that had been converted to 'black ships' with some medical facilities. It is often difficult to determine which ships really were hospital ships and which were black ships as the term hospital ship is often used indiscriminately.

Some 'transports' such as the Huntsend (renamed from the Lutzow) sailed to the UK arriving September 1915

operations were carried out on hospital ships, particularly those who were permanent hospital ships such as the RN's Delta.

The author obviously misses out the fact that his ship did stop over at various ports along the way - absolutely necessary for coal and water. It was normal to call in at Malta, for example, to pick patients ready for the home journey or to drop off others too ill to continue.

Submarines and port stoppages could greatly extend the voyage time, particularly back to the UK as precedence was given to transports taking troops to the front.

Anaesthesia - in my ten years' of studying war nursing (not a patch on Sue of course) there have been frequent examples of lack of anaesthetics.

What I've read in the official histories does not appear to reflect what was actually happening in terms of patient evacuation. And as the war diaries for most of the hospital ships at Gallipoli are missing for 1915 who can say what happened.

And now a plea for information: if you have come across any man who actually talks about his time on a HS or tpt on evacuation from Gallipoli, I would love the references please, or text and citation if available.

cheers

Kirsty

[JoMH]

Hello Kirsty and everyone,

The letter below is interesting as an account by a NZ soldier evacuated from Gallipoli in late July - printed in The Colonist, 22 September 1915 :

A WELL EARNED REST. PRIVATE H. PALMER'S WAR EXPERIENCES. NEWS OF NELSONIANS.

Private H. Palmer, of Brightwater, writing to his parents, Mr. and Mrs. H. T. Palmer, gives an interesting account of a soldier's life at Gallipoli. He says:—

"There are only about a quarter or the main body now fit for duty. Some have been killed and wounded, but most of them have gone away knocked up and run down for want of sleep. We have --- nights in the trenches and --- in support, and it is during that time that we lose half our sleep. When we leave the trenches we are on fatigue at all hours of the night. Our company has just done --- day in the trenches, and we still have --- days to do. The longest time I have been without sleep is four nights, and three up to midnight in ten days. I was like the rest of the boys, just about beat, and then orders came that we were to leave the Peninsula and go to the island of Imbros for a few days' spell. My word, it was like a Christmas holiday. We were paid 10s, the first money we have had since we left Egypt. We have not needed it, as we have nothing to spend it on. When we landed we could buy almost everything. We were first met by a Greek boat loaded with fruit, etc. We disembarked and went into tents, the first roof we have slept under for three months. When we got let loose we soon rushed the canteens that were run by Greeks. We got eggs at 1s per dozen, tinned milk 1s, chocolates and other sweets, and mulberries galore."

Private Palmer, goes on to say how much the change of diet, was appreciated, and how the change of surroundings benefited the soldiers. The time was all too short, and he says: "We wanted a few more days, but we could not be spared, and we had to go back to the same old rattle of the rifles and the thud of the guns. Our firing line is fairly safe now, and we are having very few casualties. If the enemy makes loop-holes we shoot until we blow them to pieces, and the slightest movement from them is soon shot at. We don't like the shock of their hand grenades, but if they throw one, we throw two back."

Private Palmer mentions that one of his mates, Billy Heath, got shot in the legs above the knee while putting up some barbed wire entanglements. "They were only flesh wounds," he says, "and he (Heath) reckoned it was only six weeks' holiday for him. Pat Irvine was sent away knocked up. Percy Neal never left Egypt. My main mates who are left in the main body are Teddy Baigent, Tracy Smith and John Hall. They are still able to do their duty. Ken Bird, from May's, Richmond, and Bert Thomason^ from Wai-iti, left a few days back, with sickness, but nothing serious. Sergeant Reg. Thompson is still with us, and is the sergeant in charge of our platoon. He has proved himself a thorough soldier, and took a prominent part in a charge a while back, and he and Bert Warnock did for several Turks, and took several prisoners. Bert Warnock was with a party on a gun used for firing percussion bombs, and he got knocked up for want of sleep. He will be missed, as he was a good scout. Corporal Stanley Thompson is sticking to it. Mr. Evans was seriously wounded at Cape Helles, and is reported to us as dead. He was made a sergeant, and was well liked by those under him. He was slightly wounded in the arm, but it did not stop him. He was hit again in the charge we made at the Cape... We have only one officer left who came with the main body, the reinforcement officers have filled their places. We had Lieutenant Stone in charge of us for a while, but he left sick. I am in good health but feel rather tired, not account of the work we do, but through the sleep we lose. We have not had three days' rain since we landed, and water is pretty short. We have to go several days without a wash, but when we get a chance we go to the beach for a swim, but we have to dodge shells all the time we are there.""

Writing to his parents from T.S.S. Neuralia, at sea, on August 2nd, Private Palmer says:—"I am not wounded, but am completely worn out; dysentery got hold of me, then I got an attack of influenza. I did not like leaving my mates, but they persuaded me to see a doctor, so I went to Dr Pearless who sent me away. We left with about 300 sick and wounded. Between 250 and 300 are sent out every day. They generally stay away about six weeks, or until they are strong and fit, and then return. When we were just leaving the shore a shell landed right amongst us, and knocked three down. We were hurried away and boarded a small mine-sweeper, which took us to Lemnos. I was taken ashore and remained there for two nights and a day, and was then sent to this hospital ship. I am now much better than when I left the battlefield. Our boys were .then being kept busy doing horses' work, dragging up big guns, about 400 to a gun, with ropes, each gun weighing about six tons. It takes about four hours to get one gun up, and it has to be done at night. We were losing about two-thirds of our sleep six nights out of eight. There were only 11 main body men in our platoon of 54 left doing duty. I have just met Rev Dobson, from the Sounds [Rev C J H Dobson – my grandfather – who worked in Marlborough Sounds before the war. I have found reference elsewhere to his working on H S Neuralia for a short time. Unfortunately I have no further details, and would be very interested in hearing anything about Neuralia or experiences on Hospital Ships in the area]. He found out from the sick roll that a Nelson boy was on board, and hunted me up. I hope to see Mr. Taylor [possibly Rev Thomas Fielden Taylor, another Anglican chaplain from the Nelson region] again when I get to Alexandria. I have missed his jokes since he was hurt. We had a few church services behind the trenches and one night we had a concert. In some places we heard the Turks' band playing, singing, and a phonograph going. We are looked after by Australian nurses, and it is quite a change to hear female voices…”

Writing from Alexandria Hospital under date August 10th, Private Palmer says that he has undergone a thorough examination, and the doctor says he is suffering from a slight attack of enteric fever. He was quite cheerful and says "the old bed goes good after one has not been in one for nearly 12 months." He expected to be removed to a convalescent home before returning to the front.

Joanna

[afightinglife]

Interesting thread.

I have a record of the brother of my great grandfather exaggerating in a different way. At Quinn's Post (3rd Batt AIF) he was an officer, and semaphored exaggerated casualties to halt Naval shelling that was hitting their own.

2. Voyage Time.

The outbound voyage from Avonmouth to Alexandria for the 2nd Mounted Div (including Cripp's regiment) took 11 days, including a short stop in Malta and a circuitous route to avoid submarines, so again the 21 days he claims sounds extremely long. I have not done a detailed analysis of the average, max and min times for the voyage but it would be fairly easy to do as just about every War Diary and regimental history recorded departure and arrival dates. I will revert on this, but I am pretty sure 11-13 days was about right.

And to add to the above. My great grandfather was evacuated on the 3rd May and arrived at Graylingwell War Hospital in Chichester on the 12th, admitted that evening. Their route was via Alexandria, where they changed ships, to Dover and then entrained to Chichester. I thought that was long, but evidently it was quick.

[MACRAE]

I have Surgeon General Birrell's Army Book 152 , Correspondence Book (Field Service) Dated 20th March 1915 to 20th September 1915, need to get it transcribed . the writing is typical Doctors.

Dan

[bob lembke]

No one has mentioned a statement from the lad in the first post, that there were 47,000 casualties in one week at Gallipoli.

I mostly study the Turkish/German side of that conflict, so I am not expert, but doesn't that have to be a great exaggeration?

That is like three divisions. Perhaps many of those were sick, but still!

My father fought there (are there many still about that can claim that?), but with the Turks, and the illness rate was astonishing.

I have received a copy of a German cable to Berlin from Constantinople, asking that my father's volunteer company be sent the

standard set of medical stores as specified for a cavalry regiment.

Bob Lembke

[Lawryleslie]

My Grandfather was one of the few to escape from the mauling of the Collingwood Battalion RND 3rd/4th June 1915 only to be wounded on 6th June during Turkish counter attack. He was evacuated via casualty clearing station to Malta by a hospital ship where he was cared for. He returned to England by end of July to continue treatment at Chatham Naval Hospital but his injury meant medical discharge. I still remember him showing me the shrapnel that was left in his lower back. I have tried to find out which of the many Maltese hospitals he was treated at but this has proven too difficult even eliciting the help of Malta Museum and newspapers. Anybody else tried with any success to find information about Allied casualties in Maltese Hospitals I would welcome any advice or information. I have all my Grandfathers military records but this is very elusive.

Greg Webb

[alantwo]

Greg

Take a look at Sue Light's excellent web-site: http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/190.html

My Grandfather was evacuated to Imtarfa Hospital on Malta in December but any records of his stay are, as you say, elusive.

Regards

Alan

[Lawryleslie]

_{Thank you Alan I will take a look through that....it looks pretty detaied at first glance.}

_Greg

[Lawryleslie]

There is an excellent book called "Roses of No-mans Land". it is a history of the medical services during WW1 and covers all theaters. The section on Gallipoli is very harrowing indeed and describes the journey by hospital ships from Gallipoli to Alexandria and Malta. These ships were very sparsely resourced with very little in the way of medical equipment or indeed trained medical staff. It describes the wounded lying on blankets on the deck amongst the dead and dying because there was nowhere to put the bodies and anyway the staff were overwhelmed by trying to treat the injured and sick. Dysentery and cholera ran rife throughout these vessels. My Grandfather, wounded in the 3rd Battle of Krithia was evacuated on such a ship to Bighi Hospital in Malta and survived the war. He was transferred on HS Souda between 6th and 11th of June.