Short Magazine Lee Enfield? No not smle but a no4 rifle

[ATNOMIS]

Pals,

My mate fired this .303 over the weekend. I think it's a No 4.

Your thought Pals please. I said not WW1 later Cold war.

Regards

Simon

[TonyE]

Correct, it is a Rifle No.4. Originally introduced in 1931 but not put into full production until WW2. It stayed in British service until the introduction of the L1A1 (SLR) which took place progressively from 1954.

Regards

TonyE

[4thGordons]

Simon

Yes, it is a Post WWII No4 rifle. Probably a No4 Mk2 (although possibly a conversion of a Mk1)

Very similar basic design to the SMLE but reworked to allow mass production and incorporating a receiver mounted apeture sight. The Mk2 had a different trigger mechanism too.

Chris

SNAP! - the reason I think it is a Mk2 is that I think I can see a small cross bolt above the trigger as opposed to the metal strap of the wartime MkI and MkI*

[ATNOMIS]

Correct, it is a Rifle No.4. Originally introduced in 1931 but not put into full production until WW2. It stayed in British service until the introduction of the L1A1 (SLR) which took place progressively from 1954.

Regards

TonyE

Thank you TonyE

Simon

Yes, it is a Post WWII No4 rifle. Probably a No4 Mk2 (although possibly a conversion of a Mk1)

Very similar basic design to the SMLE but reworked to allow mass production and incorporating a receiver mounted apeture sight. The Mk2 had a different trigger mechanism too.

Chris

SNAP! - the reason I think it is a Mk2 is that I think I can see a small cross bolt above the trigger as opposed to the metal strap of the wartime MkI and MkI*

Chris

Many thanks. I have fired a .303 in Cadets in the 1980's plus we did Drill with them. Funny just been showing my 9 year old some moves with the broom.

Simon

[sawdoc34]

Snap mate, remember being 13, drilling & lugging DP No4s around on field (firing blanks) exercises at camp, also fired them once or twice a Whitburn range, nearly broke my bloody jaw the 1st time (was used to .22 rifles on the indoor range, wasnt expectin the vicious kick).

On the original pic is that a plunger release for the bolt? Like on the Mk1s, cant quite make it out.

Cheers,

Aleck

[Martin Bennitt]

I have fired a .303 in Cadets in the 1980's plus we did Drill with them. Funny just been showing my 9 year old some moves with the broom.

Simon [/size]

but they changed the drill in about 1964 to conform with SLR drill. Instead of on the left shoulder the rifle was carried down along the body on the right side. Easy with the SLR because of the hand grip but with the No 4 the fingers had to be hooked into the trigger guard, which made it somewhat uncomfortable.

cheers Martin B

[MikB]

but they changed the drill in about 1964 to conform with SLR drill. Instead of on the left shoulder the rifle was carried down along the body on the right side. Easy with the SLR because of the hand grip but with the No 4 the fingers had to be hooked into the trigger guard, which made it somewhat uncomfortable.

cheers Martin B

Yes, they were already doing that when I was drilling with No.4s in the CCF in '64. It wasn't uncomfortable for a couple of hours on Monday afternoons, but I don't know that I'd've wanted to carry it all day like that. IIRC we tended to carry them slung or at the trail on field days.

Regards,

MikB

[T8HANTS]

This movement is the Shoulder Arms as practiced by Rifle Regiments, and can be found described in the 1914 Infantry Training manual, and is probably much earlier, certainly used with the 3 band Enfield percussion rifled musket. Rifle Regiments do not approve of chucking the rifle over the shoulder like some gardening implement or a broom, unless of course it is the wonderfull 'Marching at ease, butts up" as practiced by the KRRC.

G

[59165]

Gawd.

Shows how by removing a wee bit of wood can ruin a wonderful thing.

I hate 4's & have fired loads of them.I just love the jutting Bulldog chin on an smle.Purely an aesthetic thing but,I fancy I've hit the bull more & with more satisfaction with the 4's predecessor than with the b*stard son of the King of all rifles.

To quote the grandkids we have in the house at the mo'..."bleagh.Comme c'est moche!

".

No matter what state they turn up in.

[T8HANTS]

Now there's a strange thing, I dislike the SMLE, and love the No4, although aging eye sight makes it more difficult than it used to be, but the best of the lot has to be the Long Enfield, that realy is a pleasure to shoot.

Gareth

[leighc]

but they changed the drill in about 1964 to conform with SLR drill. Instead of on the left shoulder the rifle was carried down along the body on the right side. Easy with the SLR because of the hand grip but with the No 4 the fingers had to be hooked into the trigger guard, which made it somewhat uncomfortable.

cheers Martin B

I was in the Air Training Corps in Brisbane 1972-75 and we did SLR drill in my first year with Mk 3 Smellies but to make it slightly easier they replaced the magazine with a wooden mock pistol grip. In my second year they decided it looked ridiculous so we went back to "proper" .303 drill; slope arms etc.

[4thGordons]

In case there are those scratching their heads in puzzlement:

Here is the ancestry and descendents of the WWI rifle (No5) and the rifle pictured in the original post (last one)

Chris

[TonyE]

That FAL does not look very L1A1 to me Chris....or am I just being a bit picky because I had to give up mine in 1988?

Regards

TonyE

[4thGordons]

That FAL does not look very L1A1 to me Chris....or am I just being a bit picky because I had to give up mine in 1988?

Regards

TonyE

I could respond but it would be a bit off topic!

it is actually L1A1 parts (inch not metric) built on a Brazilian (?Imbel) receiver, at the time it was reassembled there was a requirement that a certain % of parts be of US manufacture hence the muzzle brake without bayonet mount too. I have all the early wood furniture for it but I am missing the cross-bolt for the front handguards so cannot put it on.