SD Tunic-badge questions.

[hadfield]

Hi all,

I have a Lincolnshire Regiment SD tunic (other ranks) circa WW1, it has all its buttons (Lincolnshire regiment, not General Service) but is missing its collar badges and shoulder titles. Also there are two holes on the right arm where a badge would have been. For your information, on each epaulette are two transverse holes each 35mm apart, near to the end of the epaulette. Also on the upper right-hand arm are two vertical holes each 35mm apart.

I would be very grateful if you could post some pictures of the collar badges and shoulder titles and give me an idea of what badges might have been worn on the right sleeve.

Regs

B

[Graham Stewart]

Sounds to me that if you have regimental buttons & holes indicating it had collar badges then it I would say in all honesty it's seen post-WWI wear

[john gregory]

It sounds like a post ww1 but put some photos on just to identify, mostly around the collar area and inside. JG

[hadfield]

Hi,

Many thanks for your interest, please refer to the attached pictures below. The stamp on the second picture is inside the top of the left sleeve and has a V over the broad arrow, can't quite make out what is to the right of it. In the third picture the label has seen better days but I can make out that it says infantry (white?) and 19... on the bottom left. Also in the third picture is stamp that says '2nd Lincs' with a four digit number under it. I hope you can help!

Regs

B

[Muerrisch]

it was "SD" [means service dress, ie the drab jacket] that threw the panel!

This is a 1902-1914 tunic, full dress.

More analysis from regimental experts to follow!

[high wood]

I cannot quite read the number but if it is 9434 then there are two Linconshire Regiment soldiers with this service number:

Clark, Henry Charles, 1st Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment 9434 Private and Robinson, Herbert, Lincolnshire Regiment 9434 Private later Northumberland Fusiliers 54565 Private.

If you can let me know what the number actually is we might be able to find out more.

Name: CLARK

Initials: H C

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Lincolnshire Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Date of Death: 29/04/1917

Service No: 9434

Additional information: Son of Mr. W. Clark, of 9, Manor St., Woolwich, London.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: A. 9.

Cemetery: HEUDICOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

[hadfield]

Hi,

Many thanks, again fascinating stuff! So it's a full dress tunic, you live and you learn! With reference to the picture below,it would appear that the number under '2. Lin' was originally '9431' and then the last digit stamped over with a 3. Now I would hazard a guess that this mean a reissue, and therefore two owners? I really hope you can help me further on this!

Regs

G

[Graham Stewart]

Agree that it has probably been re-issued at some time. I have a similar jacket that also has been stamped/branded with a regimental number.

[high wood]

It seems to read either 9483 or 9488. I am not sure if it has been reissued so much as corrected. If it was reissued it would have been to a soldier with an earlier service number. I imagine that a group of men were issued with new uniforms and were told to queue up to have them marked up and somebody got out of position as the quartermaster or whoever was numbering them in sequence.

The only medal index card for a Lincolnshire Regiment soldier with the service number 9481 is this chap:

Bloy, William Henry. 1st Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment 9481 Private.

From FreeBMD.

Births December quarter 1893: Bloy. William Henry Sleaford 7a 433

[hadfield]

Hi,

Thanks for the last reply, but before we go further down this path can I ask what could have been worn on the right sleeve of this tunic?

Regs

B

[Muerrisch]

the upper right sleeve should have only rank and or appointment badges.

these in metal were quite unusual 1900- 1914, the preferred material for a lot of that period was worsted, sewn on.

because metal was cheaper to produce than embroidered worsted, gilding metal ["brass"] was gradually substituted after 1906.

35mm is a big gap, and implies a big metal badge of appointment. Favourite for this tunic has to be the army scout badge, made in two styles and two sizes, always gilding metal with a black felt backing, holes needed are north to south on the arm.

My collection is not to hand [too valuable to keep handy] but 35mm sounds like the large size badge.

If you want an illustration, use search facility for fleur-de-lys or scout badge on this forum.

[hadfield]

Hi,

Thanks for that reply, the holes do run North to South. But just before I recieved this reply I looked at the right sleeve of this tunic and noticed that there had been stripes sewn on to the sleeve just below the badge holes. I could just make out the rough outline made by the red thread that had not been entirerly removed. It seems it was more than just one stripe!

Regs

B

[Muerrisch]

scouts could be any rank up to full sergeant at least, as could the other candidates. 35mm is a BIG badge, scout is biggest I think.

[hadfield]

Hi,

I've double-checked the measurement and 35mm is correct. What is this badge for?

Regs

B

[FROGSMILE]

Hi,

I've double-checked the measurement and 35mm is correct. What is this badge for?

Regs

B

Interestingly this badge was devised by Baden Powell in 1897 when he was serving with the 5th Dragoon Guards and awarded to cavalry scouts that he had trained. After he became inspector of cavalry it was spread to all cavalry regiments and from around 1905 adopted by all of the Army, becoming increasingly popular in WW1. It was issued in 2 grades, each of 2 styles. The larger badge was First Class and the smaller badge Second Class. The NCO version had a cross at the base and that for troopers/privates did not. However, as the exigencies of the war made supply difficult the badges were soon mixed up and worn inconsistently. He later adopted a similar (but not identical) badge for his Scout Movement.

[FROGSMILE]

and duties of a scout.

[Muerrisch]

Interestingly this badge was devised by Baden Powell in 1897 when he was serving with the 5th Dragoon Guards and awarded to cavalry scouts that he had trained. After he became inspector of cavalry it was spread to all cavalry regiments and from around 1905 adopted by all of the Army, becoming increasingly popular in WW1. It was issued in 2 grades, each of 2 styles. The larger badge was First Class and the smaller badge Second Class. The NCO version had a cross at the base and that for troopers/privates did not. However, as the exigencies of the war made supply difficult the badges were soon mixed up and worn inconsistently. He later adopted a similar (but not identical) badge for his Scout Movement.

The difference cross-bar/ no cross-bar was difference 1st class/ 2nd class. Naturally, NCOs tended to be first class, but private soldiers could qualify.

The smaller pair was issued from 1907, the larger versions obsolete but still retained by those who held them.

One of the few badges officially described as "brass" rather than "gilding metal".

Practice [and badges] were very different for British srmy in India, and Indian army.

A fascinating subject.

[hadfield]

Hi,

I have found an MIC for 9433 Sergeant William George Walker, who appears to have gone out with the BEF in 1914 and was wounded in April 1917. But the MIC places him with the 1st Lincs, not the 2nd Lincs. Any thoughts?

Regs

B

[FROGSMILE]

Hi,

I have found an MIC for 9433 Sergeant William George Walker, who appears to have gone out with the BEF in 1914 and was wounded in April 1917. But the MIC places him with the 1st Lincs, not the 2nd Lincs. Any thoughts?

Regs

B

It is not impossible that the tunic could have been 'vouchered' across between the two battalion's clothing stores by their respective quartermasters. Such transfer of materiel was common practice, especially if the two QMs had served together over a long career in the regiment, which was (and still is) almost always the case.